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How good are your pre-empts 4[Sp] or not

#1 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-December-22, 14:10


Dealer: South
Vul: All
Scoring: IMP
♠ AJ975432
♥ 3
♦ Q93
♣ Q


West North East South

 -     -     -     4♠?
 

Is this good enough for 4♠ for you?

If so how much worse before you downgrade to 3♠ (keeping the eight spades) or PASS?

If not how much better before you open 4♠ (again keeping the eight spades)?
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#2 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2008-December-22, 14:18

I thought 4s at all vul is fine.
2-3-4
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#3 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2008-December-22, 14:25

4♠. This falls within the range of my 4 level preempts (I worry less about suit quality with 8 to the Ace. Things have a way of working out with suits like that).
Chris Gibson
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#4 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-December-22, 15:08

I'd open 4♠ with this, and I don't think the presence or absence of the queens makes any difference.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#5 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2008-December-22, 15:34

4♠ with almost any 8-1-3-1. Maybe with any.
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
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#6 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-December-22, 15:57

I'd also bid 4S.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#7 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2008-December-22, 16:00

Cascade, on Dec 22 2008, 01:10 PM, said:

Is this good enough for 4♠ for you?


Yep and you don’t need much of a sense of humor for this bid.
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
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#8 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-December-22, 18:09

mike777, on Dec 23 2008, 09:18 AM, said:

I thought 4s at all vul is fine.
2-3-4

Does that mean you need 7 tricks?

Is this seven tricks?

I thought the spades were only worth 6-7 tricks. With a little extra for the ♦Q but I wasn't sure if it would evaluate to a full 7 tricks.

Is 7 tricks really enough all vul?

That will be a lot of 200s and worse.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#9 User is online   awm 

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Posted 2008-December-22, 18:59

This is pretty close to a minimum for me at vulnerable. Taking away the ♣Q doesn't really effect it (actually might be a slightly better preempt).

Replacing either ♦Q or ♠J with a small card in the same suit would convince me not to open 4♠ (although I would open 3♠ with either hand). At red/white I would bid 3♠ on the actual hand.

I don't generally PASS with an eight-card suit in first position, although perhaps if it were eight small I would consider it.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#10 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2008-December-22, 19:58

4♠ for me here. The ♠ usually play for 7 tricks and if they don't maybe a minor suit queen can help contribute to a trick. If we just bid 3♠ and the opps bid to 4♥ I don't think we are too happy here.
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#11 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2008-December-22, 20:59

Cascade, on Dec 22 2008, 07:09 PM, said:

mike777, on Dec 23 2008, 09:18 AM, said:

I thought 4s at all vul is fine.
2-3-4

Does that mean you need 7 tricks?

Is this seven tricks?

I thought the spades were only worth 6-7 tricks. With a little extra for the ♦Q but I wasn't sure if it would evaluate to a full 7 tricks.

Is 7 tricks really enough all vul?

That will be a lot of 200s and worse.

True, but you'll prevent opponents from gaining 600/620 fairly frequently also.
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#12 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-December-23, 03:29

Cascade, on Dec 23 2008, 01:09 AM, said:

mike777, on Dec 23 2008, 09:18 AM, said:

I thought 4s at all vul is fine.
2-3-4

Does that mean you need 7 tricks?

No, that's a common misconception. In fact, it means that at favourable you need at least two tricks, at equal you need three, and at adverse you need four. Even with trumps 5-0-0 you still have three winners.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#13 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-December-23, 03:31

Agree with Jillybean.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#14 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2008-December-23, 04:02

4♠, If you replace ♠A with ♠Q I'd open 3♠.
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#15 User is offline   ochinko 

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Posted 2008-December-23, 04:02

Turn ♠Ace into Queen, and I bid 3♠. Turn it into x, and I pass.
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