[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     Pass  Pass  1♣
 1♦    2♦    Pass  3♣
 Pass  Pass  3♦    Dbl
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

[han]

2D was a bit of an overbid. Double was really bad.

[jdonn]

2♦ was a normal minimum for the bid. This is a true 100% of blame to south for doubling instead of passing.

[SoTired]

I am trying to figure out the purpose of the dbl. Extra strength values? Diam stack penalty? Takeout?
This hand has none of these things. I see no purpose or reason for anything other than passing 3D.

[pclayton]

1♣, 2♦ fine.

Double makes no sense to me.

[jillybean]

My pard said this before clicking off; forcing bid without forcing hand at least you bid 4♣l i denied ♦ stopper

Maybe he missed that I was a passed hand.

[pclayton]

jillybean2, on Sep 1 2008, 10:09 AM, said:

My pard said this before clicking off; forcing bid without forcing hand at least you bid 4♣l i denied ♦ stopper

Maybe he missed that I was a passed hand.

Maybe he missed the first six months of bridge classes.

[FrancesHinden]

Rather than just slag off South's bidding (which is worth doing if it makes jillybean feel better!) it might to explain where his thinking could be coming from:

i) He probably missed North was a passed hand. Fair enough, happens to the best of us.

ii) Whilst it's very very common (I'd even stay standard) among 'modern' players to play that the cue is a good club raise, a more old-fashioned meaning is to play the cue as specifically asking for a diamond stop (used to be known as a DAB, or directional asking bid). I still come across plenty of people who play this way. Thus it's effectively game forcing, shows a good hand but is looking for a diamond stop.

iii) OK, I still don't get the double of 3D, it still seems barking. Perhaps (from the comment) it was intended to deny a diamond stop. Seems a slightly convoluted agreement to have given that (ii) above is more in line with the old-fashioned style where doubles are all penalties.

[jdonn]

FrancesHinden, on Sep 1 2008, 01:33 PM, said:

i) He probably missed North was a passed hand. Fair enough, happens to the best of us.

I don't see how this would matter. When north passed 3♣, that shows less than an opening hand anyway.

[jillybean]

DELETED way too sensitive

[Echognome]

I think you are being somewhat sensitive JB. I don't read sarcasm into Frances' comments. Note the first part of her quote:

"Rather than just slagging off South's bidding..."

So she's trying to be constructive and give a reason why the miscommunication between you and your partner occurred.

[FrancesHinden]

jillybean2, on Sep 1 2008, 07:52 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Sep 1 2008, 11:33 AM, said:

(which is worth doing if it makes jillybean feel better!)

Why do you and others continue to use sarcasm when I ask questions, cant you just be happy in the knowledge that you are a lot smarter than I am? I post all my major blunders here, and there are a lot of them. Believe me, I dont post them to make myself feel better I post them because I want to improve in this game and unlike others it does not come naturally. It is a long, often painful as I forget yet another sequence for the umpteenth time, uphill struggle.

Ive had enough of the sarcastic comments just as you've had enough of my constant silly questions - you win.

Jillybean - i wasn't being sarcastic at all, I was being absolutely truthful.

I meant exactly what I said:

- You clearly (I thought) wanted some reassurance that, as North, you had bid correctly. As South had been rude to you, and told you that you were wrong, then it's worth giving that reassurance - if you were sure you were right and he was wrong, you wouldn't have posted the hand.

- I thought it might be helpful to guess what was going through your partner's mind (although I admit I was struggling on this hand). If you are going to play with pick-up partners then it's a good idea to know how some bids can be misinterpreted. If I went to my local club and played with someone I didn't know, and I wasn't trying to establish a long term partnership or teach them, then I wouldn't bid 2D on your hand (at least, I wouldn't as a non-passed hand) if my partner appeared to be English & old-fashioned, I would probably just bid 3C.

Stage one in becoming a good player is to know the right way to bid. Stage two in become a good partner, particularly a pick-up partner, is to guess what less good players mistakenly think is the right way to bid.

Please look at all my posts in the B/I forum - I am never ever either nasty or sarcastic in response to genuine questions.

[jillybean]

Thanks Frances, I think the timing was off with your post coming on the heels of another one. One thing is certain, I am far too sensitive for forums.

[SoTired]

jillybean2, on Sep 1 2008, 02:36 PM, said:

...I am far too sensitive for forums.

No you are not. Noone who posts so many questions, baring their potential mistakes for all the world to see and risking looking like an <insult> could possibly be described as too sensitive.

I bet there are many B/I lurkers who would like to post, but do not have the nerve. They could not tolerate being told they are wrong; that they made a mistake; that they are unworthy.

Those lurkers are grateful to you. And even if some of the questions are repeated, it is new to the new lurker.

[nick_s]

SoTired, on Sep 1 2008, 03:17 PM, said:

jillybean2, on Sep 1 2008, 02:36 PM, said:

...I am far too sensitive for forums.

No you are not. Noone who posts so many questions, baring their potential mistakes for all the world to see and risking looking like an <insult> could possibly be described as too sensitive.

I bet there are many B/I lurkers who would like to post, but do not have the nerve. They could not tolerate being told they are wrong; that they made a mistake; that they are unworthy.

Those lurkers are grateful to you. And even if some of the questions are repeated, it is new to the new lurker.

Absolutely right SoTired.
Count me among those grateful lurkers.
Please continue posting JillyBean.

[brianshark]

Yeah, I was kibitzing you during the bidding of this hand Kathryn, half expecting it to appear on the BBO forums later . 2♦ seemed a bit pushy at first but the more I thought about it, the more I liked it. Dbl was not a good bid and the fault clearly lay with your partner.

I guess I should have messaged you this at the time and saved you the bother of creating the thread.

[NickRW]

One thing maybe worth saying is that I've noticed on other forums that what passes for a playful or lighthearted comment by someone on one side of the Atlantic is taken as sarcasm or worse by someone on the other. Brits and Americans don't always have the same sense of humour.

Just something to be aware of for future reference...

Nick

[vuroth]

SoTired, on Sep 1 2008, 03:17 PM, said:

jillybean2, on Sep 1 2008, 02:36 PM, said:

...I am far too sensitive for forums.

No you are not. Noone who posts so many questions, baring their potential mistakes for all the world to see and risking looking like an <insult> could possibly be described as too sensitive.

I concur