[Trumpace]

2♣ - (Double) - ?

pard opens 2C and RHO doubles.

What does 2♦ show here? Same hand as if there was no double? A strong hand similar to other 2 level responses to 2♣, but with diamonds?

Is there a standard treatment of this in Sayc, or does this need to be agreed upon?

If there is a standard treatment, does anyone have a link to the reference?

Suppose you bid 2D assuming there was no intervening double...

The auction now goes:

2C - (Double) - 2D - (2H)
3H

What kind of a hand does 3H by partner show?

Thanks.

[helene_t]

I am pretty sure this is not specified in any of the sayc documents.

Without discussion I would assume
pass=nothing to say
rdbl=some clubs
2♦=diamonds

Maybe if we have some agreements about what to do when stayman and transfers get doubled it would be reasonable to assume that similar agreements apply here.

[manudude03]

I play 2♦ there as 4-7 with at least 4 diamonds. Pass is any 0-3 or 4-7 with clubs, Rdbl is any 8+. Not sure if that's standard though. 3H for me would show a strong 1 suiter (no tolerance for anywhere else). Demands cuebidding if possible, otherwise 3NT with scattered quacks or 4H.

[pclayton]

I teach my BI partners x, xx and 2♥ are all busts.

[kenrexford]

manudude03, on Jun 11 2008, 04:55 PM, said:

I play 2♦ there as 4-7 with at least 4 diamonds. Pass is any 0-3 or 4-7 with clubs, Rdbl is any 8+. Not sure if that's standard though. 3H for me would show a strong 1 suiter (no tolerance for anywhere else). Demands cuebidding if possible, otherwise 3NT with scattered quacks or 4H.

I thought you were playing Xango when I first read this.

I interpreted "4-7 with at least four diamonds" as a 4-card or longer diamond suit with an unspecified seven-card side suit. It got really weird when pass showed either a void in diamond with three clubs or four+ clubs and an unspecified seven-card side suit. Redouble with an eight-card suit started to clue me in, finally.

LOL

[manudude03]

kenrexford, on Jun 12 2008, 12:20 AM, said:

manudude03, on Jun 11 2008, 04:55 PM, said:

I play 2♦ there as 4-7 with at least 4 diamonds. Pass is any 0-3 or 4-7 with clubs, Rdbl is any 8+. Not sure if that's standard though. 3H for me would show a strong 1 suiter (no tolerance for anywhere else). Demands cuebidding if possible, otherwise 3NT with scattered quacks or 4H.

I thought you were playing Xango when I first read this.

I interpreted "4-7 with at least four diamonds" as a 4-card or longer diamond suit with an unspecified seven-card side suit. It got really weird when pass showed either a void in diamond with three clubs or four+ clubs and an unspecified seven-card side suit. Redouble with an eight-card suit started to clue me in, finally.

LOL

I like to go exotic ... when I'm on holiday.

That said, its probably a good thing I don't know Xango. Googled it and I'm getting results about some international company selling fruit juice .

[neilkaz]

pclayton, on Jun 11 2008, 05:25 PM, said:

I teach my BI partners x, xx and 2♥ are all busts.

What Phil is saying here is straight out of Hardy's Adv Bidding for 21st Century and also on a couple websites that discuss 2♣ in some detail.

One wonders,however, if X is the best call after an overcall with a bust since it may allow advancer to convey some msg to PD with an XX which is not available if pass shows a bust.

If you play that pass after the O/C shows a bust, the 2♣ opener can X with the balanced hand that intended to rebid NT and with some interest in having PD (knowing's he's nearly broke) cooperate with a penalty X of the O/C (ie holds a couple cards in the suit). But if X shows a bust, the 2♣ opener has to guess whether responder has any defensive help if he dares pass with the big NT hand. Holding the suit oriented hand, opener just bids his suit regardless or may Q the opps suit at the 3 level as 100% GF opposite even the worst Yarb in history.

Re: cooperating with the penalty X..when you have 23 opposite 1 HCP and no fit, you may not even make 2NT and yet the opps can't make their 2 level contract and may even be off 2 dbld if opener is balanced and responder has some trumps and the opp overcall was hoping to take us out of our "system" or catch a big fit for a sac.

Re: 2♥=bust..I am not here to name drop, but due to my backgammon and trading I am priviledged to know well some world champ ability Americans and they agree with me in thinking this method superior to 2♦ and then showing a dble neg. http://www.prairiene...bridge/b_2c.htm for more (scroll half way down).. ie 2♦ waiting isn't so good..ie it sucks.

Re: XX of the X showing a bust.. I have no opinion as to whether this or pass is better.

.. neilkaz ...