Quote
It's forcing but not to game. And I think these gadgets are even more useful by a passed hand because it bounds the hand even more strictly.
I Disagree 100%
Pass----1C
1H------2C
Do you really believe that its better to play 2D as forcing ?
With pass on the 1st round any hand that is a weak 2 in H is out.
Any hand that is GF is out.
Any hand that is H + club fit (4 cards) with limit strength is out.
The only problematics hand are
1-a good 6H+4S
2-a bad 6H +4S
3- a good 5H + 3C
4- a courtesy raise
with 1 i bid 2H.
with 2 i pass
with 3 i bid 3C even with 2 clubs 3C will not pose problems.
with 4 i pass.
Keeping 2D as artificial is giving a courtesy raise since you can use 2Nt as a good raise and 2D as multi inv (so the balanced inv is in 2D). However there are some problem with the response of 2D as multi inv wich tend to denied a club fit.
The responses after the 3rd suit forcing 2D that i suggest are.
2H = xxx or Hx and a minimum hand.
2S = stopper in spade no H fit deny a stop in D
2Nt = minimum no H fit stopper in D.
3C = mininum solid clubs or 7 of them.
3D = max 6C + 4D
3H = max xxx or Hx in H.
If we keep 2D as natural NF
1- Walsh style than 2D show 5D or + and is mainly to play.
2- non Walsh 2D show 5H+4D inv or weakish 55 in the red.
Ill raise with 3 card support often so when i rebid my minor and partner is a passed hand we dont play often in partner major (unless hes 6M+4oM and didnt want to preempt).
For me its clear 2D as natural is better.
After
P-----1C
1S----2C
???
here 2D as artificial make more sense because you can show the extra hand of 55M non- inv but i still believe 2D as nat to be slightly superior.
2D = multi inv
2H = 5-5M not invitationnal.
2S = 6S and reason for not wanting to preempt
2Nt = power club raise
3C courtesy raise.
VS
2D = natural inv or weakish 55
2H = natural INV
2S = natural INV
2Nt = natural INV
3C= natural INV
If
P------1D
1S----2D
2H= nat inv
2S = nat inv reason for not preempting (probably 55 or 65 in the black)
2Nt = nat
3C = good D raise
3D = courtesy raise.
There is a big matter of style here. Those who play sytem on even by a passed hand and those who play that passed hand bidding is a different story. Im in the latter category. Ive learned that 4th suit forcing is off by a passed hand (except at a high level). So its tough for me to find reasons to play new minor forcing and 3rd suit forcing by a PH.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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