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What next

#1 User is offline   Halo 

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Posted 2007-November-18, 16:38



After you open 1S, LHO passes, partner bids 4S. What do you bid?
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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2007-November-18, 16:53

ugh. i know some old fashion system where 5♥ asks pd to bid 6 with hearts under control. could we plz plz adopt it?
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#3 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2007-November-18, 18:17

5C
on the way to down in 5 spades. :P
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#4 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-November-18, 18:55

I'll go with 5C too, just too good of a chance partner has short hearts.
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#5 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2007-November-19, 03:58

5♣. If p has a heart control (probably singleton) we are in 6.
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#6 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2007-November-19, 12:23

Pass. I am not playing partner for the perfect hand.
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#7 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-November-19, 12:27

ArtK78, on Nov 19 2007, 01:23 PM, said:

Pass. I am not playing partner for the perfect hand.

Me neither, I'll ask him if he has it instead. 5♣.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#8 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2007-November-19, 14:56

jdonn, on Nov 19 2007, 01:27 PM, said:

ArtK78, on Nov 19 2007, 01:23 PM, said:

Pass.  I am not playing partner for the perfect hand.

Me neither, I'll ask him if he has it instead. 5♣.

me too
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#9 User is offline   vuroth 

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Posted 2007-November-19, 15:20

Some beginner questions:

- What will 5♥ mean? First round control? First or second round control?
- Can partner reasonably have 4 spades here? (This makes a big difference, right? We need to ruff at lest some hearts, depending on partner's high cards, without being overruffed....

The hand presents some huge, obvious upside. How much certainty does 5♣ - 5♥ give us?

V
Still decidedly intermediate - don't take my guesses as authoritative.

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rule number 1 in efficient forum reading:
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
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Posted 2007-November-19, 15:23

vuroth, on Nov 19 2007, 04:20 PM, said:

- What will 5♥ mean? First round control? First or second round control?

5H by partner will show a first or second round control. Obviously this could include something like Kxx, but that would be very unlucky since that would give him shortness in a minor which is obviously unlikely given our hand.

Quote

- Can partner reasonably have 4 spades here?


It would be unusual but possible with something like 6-4 or 544 shape. I don't think partner can have 4 spades and 5431
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#11 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2007-November-19, 15:27

Strangely, I'm inclined to simply blast 6♠.

I bet I have a good shot of making six even if partner's stiff is not in hearts, if I am fortunate enough to not get a heart lead. I may end up, for instance, with three top minor cards in my hand (3), three diamond ruffs in my hand (6), partner's fifth spade (11), and a sixth trump, an established diamond, or the club Queen for my 12th trick.
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#12 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-November-19, 15:37

OK Ken, I don't understand. Could you give me a hand where partner has two or more small hearts and we can take 12 tricks on such a line?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#13 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2007-November-19, 16:22

Hannie, on Nov 19 2007, 04:37 PM, said:

OK Ken, I don't understand. Could you give me a hand where partner has two or more small hearts and we can take 12 tricks on such a line?

I'll save Ken the trouble.. altho maybe you'll say this is too remote a possibility ( :P ) and I'd be forced to agree with you: Qxxxx xx void QJxxxx is one 'obvious' layout :) :P :P
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#14 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2007-November-19, 16:34

mikeh, on Nov 19 2007, 05:22 PM, said:

Hannie, on Nov 19 2007, 04:37 PM, said:

OK Ken, I don't understand. Could you give me a hand where partner has two or more small hearts and we can take 12 tricks on such a line?

I'll save Ken the trouble.. altho maybe you'll say this is too remote a possibility ( :P ) and I'd be forced to agree with you: Qxxxx xx void QJxxxx is one 'obvious' layout :) :P :P

You don't have to get that sexy.

How about something simpler, like

♠QJxxx ♥xx ♦xxxxx ♣x?

If I get a club lead, this is easy.

The hand you provided of ♠Qxxxx ♥xx ♦void ♣QJxxxx seems like overkill. As the diamond void allows a heart pitch from dummy, the clubs could be six small, easily. You ruff clubs until the opponents are out and then use the remaining clubs and spades on dummy to ditch the hearts in hand (complicated way to say "dummy reversal", perhaps the problem considering the suggested hand from mikeh). But, that's a diamond-shortness holding rather than the slightly more likely club-shortness version.

I have to admit that I cannot come up with a good hand for the club Queen ever playing out as important, because it must be long, making diamond short, and must be so long that its existence is immaterial, except perhaps to counter a bad (3-0) trump split.


I also have to admit that there are some transportation difficulties, depending upon the lead, in some layouts.
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#15 User is offline   zasanya 

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Posted 2007-November-20, 08:45

Jlall, on Nov 19 2007, 04:23 PM, said:

vuroth, on Nov 19 2007, 04:20 PM, said:

- What will 5♥ mean?  First round control?  First or second round control?

5H by partner will show a first or second round control. Obviously this could include something like Kxx, but that would be very unlucky since that would give him shortness in a minor which is obviously unlikely given our hand.

Quote

- Can partner reasonably have 4 spades here?


It would be unusual but possible with something like 6-4 or 544 shape. I don't think partner can have 4 spades and 5431

Is it standard practice to show second round control after 1♠-4♠-5♣? I always thought if one makes the first cue bid at 5 level it should be an ace or void.
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#16 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2007-November-20, 08:53

Well, theory, according to most standard agreements, 1M-4M shouldn't have an outside A or void.
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#17 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-November-20, 10:26

mikeh, on Nov 19 2007, 05:22 PM, said:

Hannie, on Nov 19 2007, 04:37 PM, said:

OK Ken, I don't understand. Could you give me a hand where partner has two or more small hearts and we can take 12 tricks on such a line?

I'll save Ken the trouble.. altho maybe you'll say this is too remote a possibility ( :P ) and I'd be forced to agree with you: Qxxxx xx void QJxxxx is one 'obvious' layout :) :P B)

No it isn't, read Ken's suggested line.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#18 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-November-20, 10:27

kenrexford, on Nov 19 2007, 05:34 PM, said:

mikeh, on Nov 19 2007, 05:22 PM, said:

Hannie, on Nov 19 2007, 04:37 PM, said:

OK Ken, I don't understand. Could you give me a hand where partner has two or more small hearts and we can take 12 tricks on such a line?

I'll save Ken the trouble.. altho maybe you'll say this is too remote a possibility ( :P ) and I'd be forced to agree with you: Qxxxx xx void QJxxxx is one 'obvious' layout :) :P :huh:

You don't have to get that sexy.

How about something simpler, like

♠QJxxx ♥xx ♦xxxxx ♣x?

If I get a club lead, this is easy.

The hand you provided of ♠Qxxxx ♥xx ♦void ♣QJxxxx seems like overkill. As the diamond void allows a heart pitch from dummy, the clubs could be six small, easily. You ruff clubs until the opponents are out and then use the remaining clubs and spades on dummy to ditch the hearts in hand (complicated way to say "dummy reversal", perhaps the problem considering the suggested hand from mikeh). But, that's a diamond-shortness holding rather than the slightly more likely club-shortness version.

I have to admit that I cannot come up with a good hand for the club Queen ever playing out as important, because it must be long, making diamond short, and must be so long that its existence is immaterial, except perhaps to counter a bad (3-0) trump split.


I also have to admit that there are some transportation difficulties, depending upon the lead, in some layouts.

I hope my point was clear, the line of play you suggested doesn't work.

If partner has a club singleton or diamond void you may make, true.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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