[jocdelevat]

[

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 1♥    Pass  1♠    Pass
 2♦    Pass  3♣    Pass
 4♠    Pass  4NT   Pass
 5♥    Pass  6♥    Pass
 Pass  Pass  

[ArtK78]

What was 4♠? I have no clue where that bid came from.

Both partners bid a lot. I assign 75% of the blame to West for the 4♠ bid, and 25% of the blame to East for not discounting the value of his AQ of clubs.

[brianshark]

30% of the blame for East's decision to bid 4th suit forcing and then bid hearts, overbidding his hand by an ace or so.
40% of blame to West's 4♠ bid which was unnecessarily high and space consuming.
30% of the blame for East's raise to 6♥ missing an outside A, the ♠Q and not knowing about the ♥Q.

[jdonn]

I disagree with both the previous posters (at least their reasoning). I blame east because...

Shocking - if east starts with 2♣ instead of 1♠ they have a MUCH nicer auction!

1♥ 2♣
2♦ 2♥
2♠ 2NT
3♦

Both players have described the nature of their hands to a tee with entirely natural bidding. Further bidding (or even the last round or two) is mostly a function of style and judgment, but the fact remains and will never change - when you have a balanced game force with three hearts and partner opens 1♥, if you respond 1♠, you will have space consuming "assign the blame" auctions, but if you respond 2♣ you will have easy economical descriptive auctions.

As for how it actually went, east is still most to blame for not passing 5♥.

* Sarcasm due to the fact that I suggest this every time, and yet people still keep posting these hands

[gwnn]

I wouldn't worry about getting to a similar slam every now and again. It looks to be ~30%, which is bad, but if you never reach a 30% slam you aren't bidding enough slams.

(of course with 1 ace and the queen of hearts missing it's quite bad to reach slam. I just noted that the disaster wasn't that big)

[whereagles]

3♣ was daisy-picking. There's no need to bid 4SF when you have a completely normal 4♥ bid.

4♠ is way out of order. 3♣ was game forcing. No need to jump. 3♠ is better, or even 3♦ to keep bidding low.

4NT is clearly a misinterpretation of what pard meant with 4♠. And 6♥ is too optimistic.

Blame: 50-50 (both players messed up badly).

[whereagles]

jdonn, on Nov 20 2007, 06:48 PM, said:

Shocking - if east starts with 2♣ instead of 1♠ they have a MUCH nicer auction!

Not really shocking. I've realized hands like East's can get pretty hard to bid, thus 2♣ as a start is completely logical.

With this particular hand it is actually ok to bid 1♠ (no slam interest), but add a king and you can get into muddy waters unless you start with 2♣ (or some artificial balanced raise like 2NT = 4333 raise, GF).

[vuroth]

jdonn, on Nov 20 2007, 01:48 PM, said:

...if east starts with 2♣ instead of 1♠ they have a MUCH nicer auction!

1♥ 2♣
2♦ 2♥
2♠ 2NT
3♦

So you're playing 2/1? Is bypassing a biddable suit in favour of presenting an immediate game force a common strategy in 2/1?

Assuming that the OP wasn't playing 2/1, 1♠ hardly seems a killing blow.

3♣ - if it's fsf, my understanding of fsf is that you use it when the flavour is still uncertain. Is this because east is contemplating 3NT? This seems awfully perfectionist to me. There's a known 8 card fit - just bid 4♥.

4♠ - if 3♣ was fsf, this is too unilateral. Bid 3♠ and let partner go from there. If you don't play fsf, well then this is way way too unilateral - 3NT and 5♦ may yet be superior contracts (4♥ too).

4NT - If fsf, 4♠ was 4540 and no slam interest - given the void, probably a weakish hand. Pass like lightning. If no fsf, 4♠ may show extras, but East's hand isn't exactly controllish. Plus, my club values may be wasted.

I'd hate to assign blame. East failed to support with a fit, and west supported with no known fit.

Then again, what do I know?

[mikeh]

In descending order, worst first:

6♥. While east can rely on partner for extras, he should not bid slam when the best it can ever be on is a finesse for the queen of trump, and there will be hands where it is far worse: AQx Axxxx KQxxx void is one.

4♠: I don't like it, but I can understand it. If partner is slamming in any of the 3 suits so far shown, this bid has the advantage of showing approximate shape and possession of extras. If partner was thinking of 3N, then he should have doubt (otherwise he should have bid 3N, not 3♣), and west surely shares that doubt.

3♣: a trifle pushy, but slam is surely still possible: give West Axx AQxxx KQxxx void, and slam is far better than it was... I'd put it as borderline, since we need 3-2 trump and no bad news in diamonds. And W could have an even better hand, just short of a jumpshift.

I don't agree with jdonn about 2♣. While the last long thread on the topic semi-convinced me that there are hands on which 2♣ works well, I don't find his auction plausible: his 'entirely natural' auction is the only way I can see where two expert partners, in an unobstructed auction with slam possibilities, cannot ever find their 4-4 spade fit: what a system!

[jdonn]

Sometimes when I've already located my heart fit, I don't find my spade fit. I seem to do ok with that But if you like opener bidding 3♦ at his third turn instead, I won't argue. Really you're disagreeing with the bidding after 2♥, which I can understand, but no matter what you think those bids should be the whole auction will go well after 2♣.

[mike777]

100% east.

I hate 1spade and all the rest....We knew this was going to happen after one spade.
Our job is to make bids that are easy for partner not to make the game harder.

[jocdelevat]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 1♥    Pass  1♠    Pass
 2♦    Pass  3♣    Pass
 4♠    Pass  4NT   Pass
 5♥    Pass  6♥    Pass
 Pass  Pass  

This was the full hand. I was east and pard has advanced level(we play before). We play basic sayc. I thought after 2d my hand increase in value and I didn't want to stop in game which 3nt and 4h does. I didn't think about 3h. I still do not know after a 2d bid how you can sugest to partner to go slam and not to stop in game.I recognized I'm a bad at biding and especially on biding slams seems like law of murphy if I bid goes wrong if I not it goes well.
2clubs seems to fit well here but I do with my partners I got raise in clubs. I still think 2c is a good idea. My pard sugest to me to use jacoby 2nt which I use only with 4 trumps.

Thank you all for your response.

[neilkaz]

My opinion may differ from others, but playing something SAYCish this seems to not be a difficult hand to bid.

1♠ is fine with 4 cards and I prefer it to 2♣.

However, then East's bidding became too optimistic. After 2♦, East's 4333 14 HCP hand does NOT improve due to a fitting J !!

I would deduct a point due to being 4333 when considering a suit contract due to almost no chance to ruff. Thus E should NOT be flashing any slam signals.

This is IMPs so after 2♦ as east I prefer 3NT (I love having the lead come to my hand) to 4♥ which can have issues taking 10 tricks especially if trumps split 4-1 or lots of cards are offside. Normally I prefer to play 5-3 fits in the major game, but here we are 4333 and have the side suits double stopped with tenaces.

However either 3NT or 4♥ on east's 2nd turn will end this auction and show PD no slam interest. I hate to beat a dead horse, but East should not imply any slam interest after the 2♦ rebid.

What was west's 4♠ jump ? Simply 3♠ would show 3 card support and not get too high.

.. neilkaz ..