[jillybean]

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ A9864 ♥ 8 ♦ KJ7 ♣ K862

West North East South

 -     -     -     1♠
 2♣    3♣    Pass  ? 

[whereagles]

I would bid 4♠ on reasons that are a bit technical, not judgemental.

[P_Marlowe]

3S, assuming 3C is inv.+ with fit.
You have a min opener, and the
King of club is nothing to cheer about.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[han]

3S. You have a minimum and the fact that your RHO has bid clubs is a really bad sign. Had it gone 1S-(2H)-3H then I would have bid game.

[keylime]

Downgrade this hand quickly. The KC is a bad omen, and your diamond holding is in trouble potentially. Pard is not going to have 2 trump honors, a working diamond honor, club shortage, and a heart honor enough to merit a blast. That, and well, he/she may still move on to game as well.

[neilkaz]

Opener has a 11 HCP hand and his trumps aren't great and the K of ♣ needs to be devalued with due to the overcall.

All that makes me want to just bid 3♠ (off course assuming 3♣ is limit raise or better) but then PD may hold the magic.... Kxxx,xxxx,AQxx,x

There are two inbetween suits available for game tries and, for me if I bid 3♦ all it shows is a game try with better ♦ than ♥. However, PD may bid game with hands that have little chance to make and I really don't care for the likely positioning of my K of ♣ and we could have a trump loser or two on a bad day or be sunk by a poor split.

I lean towards the wimpy 3♠ rather than a game try. ... neilkaz ...

[hrothgar]

I'd bid 3♠. Some people say that you should accept any invite with a stiff, however, this hand is incredible weak and the King of Clubs is badly placed.

If I were to consider any other bid, it would be 3♦

[han]

whereagles, on Oct 30 2007, 12:59 PM, said:

I would bid 4♠ on reasons that are a bit technical, not judgemental.

This is the second time today I see you use the word technical, and again I have no clue what it means. For what technical reasons would you misbid on this hand?

[pclayton]

I usually accept a limit raise with a stiff in my hand, but I can't bring myself to do it here. Not only is the K♣ a dubious card, but RHO will probably be overruffing clubs. Furthermore we are NV, so why do I need to push?

3♠ and hope we make it.

[whereagles]

Hannie, on Oct 30 2007, 06:32 PM, said:

whereagles, on Oct 30 2007, 12:59 PM, said:

I would bid 4♠ on reasons that are a bit technical, not judgemental.

This is the second time today I see you use the word technical, and again I have no clue what it means. For what technical reasons would you misbid on this hand?

Pard rates to have a doubleton club. That makes it a SST of 3, meaning 19-21 WPs are good for 10 tricks. I got 8 WPs, so I need like 11 WPs in pard. That's not too much of a prayer given he's cued. If I just sign-off in 3♠, pard might pass with a few min hands that make game. And if he happens to have a singleton club, we'll make game almost all of the time.

Finally, if you think this technical reason is a "misbid", well... I guess you suck then.

[jdonn]

hrothgar, on Oct 30 2007, 01:30 PM, said:

I'd bid 3♠.  Some people say that you should accept any invite with a stiff, however, this hand is incredible weak and the King of Clubs is badly placed.

If I were to consider any other bid, it would be 3♦

I have heard that said too, but I believe it is advice that is only intended for when partner promises 4 card support. The stiff in the long hand is not nearly as valuable in a 5-3 fit, especially with such weak trumps.

Anyway I digress. Absolutely routine pass. It was a pass in a close decision if there was no interference and partner had a 3 card limit raise, but the 2♣ overcall makes it obvious.

Edit: Ok maybe not pass Obviously I meant signoff.

[han]

Josh, you should look at it from the technical side!

[jdonn]

Hannie, on Oct 30 2007, 02:50 PM, said:

Josh, you should look at it from the technical side!

I don't want to suck like you hehe, I'll stick to being right.

[mike777]

jillybean2, on Oct 30 2007, 12:53 PM, said:

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> South </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> None </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </th> <td> A9864 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> 8 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> KJ7 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> K862 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

West  North East  South

 -     -     -     1♠
 2♣    3♣    Pass  ? </span>

lots of interesting replies.

At imps I would always accept game with a stiff and this hand type if partner knows I open this light.

OTher option is too pass and not open but not sure that is allowed in forum.

[jillybean]

My expert (pu) partner bid 3nt here, "choice of games since I know you have ♥'s"
The hand came as a surprise, I overbid and the result was of course a disaster.

http://forums.bridge...topic=22023&hl=

[neilkaz]

jillybean2, on Oct 30 2007, 07:26 PM, said:

My expert (pu) partner bid 3nt here, "choice of games since I know you have ♥'s"
The hand came as a surprise, I overbid and the result was of course a disaster.

http://forums.bridge...topic=22023&hl=

I don't care for PD's 3NT and noting that you may have only 10 HCP how does he expect to make it if you choose to leave him there ?

EDIT: Perhaps PD assumed 3♣ was GF in SAYC as it should be, but many play Q = LROB. Even if 3♣ is GF, I don't care for his 3NT bid with his hand even if intended to offer a choice of games, and an expert should be careful not to confuse a pick up PD.

If you don't mind, please show us the bidding after 3NT. Did you end up going for a bad slam, perhaps stopping at the 5 level because you though PD was stronger ?

As a general rule, when you are confused by the bidding or expect PD is, keep things low and go slowly. If you Q bid 4♥ or 4♣ next and PD didn't cooperate and just bid 4♠, just pass and end the auction.

If you blasted into a quick Blackwood over his 3NT, then you needed to be sure that he had monster slam interest, which I wouldn't expect in SAYC. You can find out about that slam interest buy Qing at the 4 level.

When I am dealt your hand and hear PD open 1♠, the only thing that cross my mind here is that we are playing game and it will be 4♠ unless PD fits ♥ as well. Nothing in this bidding indicates to me that PD has the substantial extras needed for slam.

Be careful when you aren't certain what PD's bids mean. .. neilkaz ..

[jillybean]

neilkaz, on Oct 30 2007, 07:08 PM, said:

If you don't mind, please show us the bidding after 3NT. Did you end up going for a bad slam, perhaps stopping at the 5 level because you though PD was stronger ?

I'd rather not, suffice to say my partners bidding was fabulous in comparison.

[Fluffy]

Agree with Phil

[helene_t]

Mark me down for a sucking 3♠ (unless 3♣ is GF and fast arrival applies). This hand has degraded to a subminimum (ok just a minimum for people more aggresive than me).

3NT was really ill-judged. Experts, sigh.