[mike777]

What is standard?

Is it standard to play any kind of jump rebid in a minor at the 3 level as game forcing.

example:
1c=1d
2c=3d?



Perhaps some other auction or none?

[vang]

i hope it's not a trick question. standard is NF (inv).

[mike777]

vang, on Oct 30 2007, 05:16 PM, said:

i hope it's not a trick question. standard is NF (inv).

So in standard you need to invent a false major if you do not have a 4card suit? Including a false major with no true stopper?

[jtfanclub]

mike777, on Oct 30 2007, 05:24 PM, said:

vang, on Oct 30 2007, 05:16 PM, said:

i hope it's not a trick question. standard is NF (inv).

So in standard you need to invent a false major if you do not have a 4card suit? Including a false major with no true stopper?

I think standard is to ask for a stopper, by bidding 3♥ or 3♠. But I could be wrong.

[han]

I think a jump to 3M is a splinter here, not a stopper ask.

I think vang has it right, in standard a jump to 3D is invitational and with a gameforcing hand you have to make up a 2M bid.This is not so dangerous as partner can't have a 4-card major.

[mike777]

Hannie, on Oct 30 2007, 05:39 PM, said:

I think a jump to 3M is a splinter here, not a stopper ask.

I think vang has it right, in standard a jump to 3D is invitational and with a gameforcing hand you have to make up a 2M bid.This is not so dangerous as partner can't have a 4-card major.

so 2 of a major rebid is 100% game forcing, not one round?

1c=1d
2c=2h=100% game forcing or only one round forcing?
3c or 2S= 3d or 3C? still 100% game forcing?

[han]

That's what I think yes. But as you know, "standard bridge" doesn't really exist.

[mike777]

Hannie, on Oct 30 2007, 05:45 PM, said:

That's what I think yes. But as you know, "standard bridge" doesn't really exist.

Thanks for kind replies, as you all know I played with a bunch of pick-ups last week and none of them or our tm seemed to play this as invite. They all said standard was 3d forcing, I replied ok will try and remember since I would have assumed the "Han way".

[han]

Just tell them you play Han-standard, they will know.

[vang]

mike777, on Oct 31 2007, 12:42 AM, said:

Hannie, on Oct 30 2007, 05:39 PM, said:

I think a jump to 3M is a splinter here, not a stopper ask.

I think vang has it right, in standard a jump to 3D is invitational and with a gameforcing hand you have to make up a 2M bid.This is not so dangerous as partner can't have a 4-card major.

so 2 of a major rebid is 100% game forcing, not one round?

1c=1d
2c=2h=100% game forcing or only one round forcing?
3c or 2S= 3d or 3C? still 100% game forcing?

with an one suited GF hand you may start with a jump shift (the same "standard" which doesn't exist ;-)

[awm]

Standard bridge also includes strong jump shifts which help you get a lot of the big one suited hands off your chest. Certainly any hand which has significant slam interest in their first bid suit opposite a minimum opening with no particular fit seems to qualify for a strong jump shift.

I think a lot of the problems with "standard bridge" come when people start to graft popular conventions or treatments onto the methods without informing their students that what they're teaching is not exactly "standard bridge" anymore. It turns out that the use of strong jump shifts is actually pretty well-thought out and solves a lot of problems in a system where there are not very many ways to force game at responder's first call. The popularity of weak jump shifts comes mostly from 2/1 GF style bidding where the big hands are not a problem and distinguishing the weak hands from the invites often comes at much greater cost.

[helene_t]

With some partners I have agreed to play 3♦ as forcing but that's not standard. To GF, bid a major.

[mike777]

awm, on Oct 30 2007, 06:11 PM, said:

Standard bridge also includes strong jump shifts which help you get a lot of the big one suited hands off your chest. Certainly any hand which has significant slam interest in their first bid suit opposite a minimum opening with no particular fit seems to qualify for a strong jump shift.

I think a lot of the problems with "standard bridge" come when people start to graft popular conventions or treatments onto the methods without informing their students that what they're teaching is not exactly "standard bridge" anymore. It turns out that the use of strong jump shifts is actually pretty well-thought out and solves a lot of problems in a system where there are not very many ways to force game at responder's first call. The popularity of weak jump shifts comes mostly from 2/1 GF style bidding where the big hands are not a problem and distinguishing the weak hands from the invites often comes at much greater cost.

yes, I insisted on playing strong jump shifts in this basic 2/1 versions with pickups...

to be fair with the last one I was playing crisscross so 1c=2d as a natural jump shift was not an option.