[manudude03]

My partner (sitting south) opens 3♠ pre-emptive and I find myself with this hand:

Scoring: IMP

---

I respond 4NT intending it to be RKCB 0314. However, my partner bids 5♠ showing 2 or 5 key cards with the ♠Q, or so I would expect. I had another look at my hand and realised this was an impossible situation (I have 4 of the key cards in my own hand and so my partner can only have 1 at most). What should I bid?

ps. I jumped to 7NT on the basis that if he has the ♣A for his 5♠ response, its cold. As is, he only had 6 spades too.

[han]

asking for keycards seems like a good idea, unless you have a way to ask for a club control.

If partner has the ace, bid 7NT, if not, bid 5S.

[manudude03]

The problem I was really enquiring about was what to bid over 5♠, a bid which would be expected to show something he can't have. 4NT seems obvious (pickup partner on BBO, no agreement about finding that club control). Needless to say, a bit of a debate started after the hand, in which we admittedly both messed up.

[han]

It is hard to give advice for such an absurd situation. The only advice I can give is make the best of it and don't enter a discussion with this partner afterwards.

[pclayton]

Hannie, on Oct 28 2007, 11:08 AM, said:

It is hard to give advice for such an absurd situation. The only advice I can give is make the best of it and don't enter a discussion with this partner afterwards.

Agree. Its not like this situation is going to repeat.

I'm curious what your pard's interpretation of 4N was and what he thought 5♠ meant.

[manudude03]

I think he knew my 4nt was asking, his 5♠ was alerted as (bid, not answer) so I guess he was just thinking he was rebidding spades.

[whereagles]

If you don't have any clear agreements on how to ask for club control, it's a guess. So I suggest bidding a plain 6♠. Not 7 because that attracts an ace lead. Against 6, opening leader might decide there's no rush to cash his ace...

[han]

It is clear to lead an ace against 3S-6S. And why would you not ask for keycards, how can it possibly cost? What can 4NT in a pick-up partnship be but RKC or blackwood (since we have the king we don't care).

[manudude03]

that's assuming the leader has the Ace to lead. Just incase this sheds any more light on the situation, here's all 4 hands (i initially got the vulnerability wrong):

Scoring: IMP

---

Bidding:
3♠-P-4NT-P
5♠-P-7NT-X
P/O

Sorry, haven't worked out all the forum functions yet.

Can't say I liked the opening bid. I was rather amused when the ♣K was lead, held, and then switched suit to give me it off 1 (surely I would take it with the Ace if I had it).

Another (slightly unrelated question). If my partner had passed and it came round to me, I would open 2♣, probably get a 2♦ response. What would my rebid be then? 3NT would look closest to the truth about my hand, but what about that xx doubleton?

[the hog]

Many good players use a jump to the 5 level to ask for controls in the suit. This makes perfect sense as the 4 level, (if in a minor), is forcing anyway.
Don't try this with a pick up pd however.

[helene_t]

Yes, after 2♣-2♦ you rebid 3NT. Hopefully you and p are on the same wavelength as to continuations (4♥ is now a transfer, you may break with 5♦ showing lack of ♣ control, p retransfers with 5♥. Applause if this (or something else) works with a pick-up partner).

[whereagles]

That doesn't look like a 3♠ opener. Even most would refrain from opening 2♠ in 1st/2nd seat.

If you open too wide on hcp, it gets kinda hard to gauge where you belong. Either open 3-7 or 6-10, but not 3-10

[bid_em_up]

manudude03, on Oct 28 2007, 01:20 PM, said:

The problem I was really enquiring about was what to bid over 5♠, a bid which would be expected to show something he can't have. 4NT seems obvious (pickup partner on BBO, no agreement about finding that club control). Needless to say, a bit of a debate started after the hand, in which we admittedly both messed up.

I wouldn't concern myself too much about what this partner had to say when they:

1) open this 3♠ (its pretty awful for a 2S opening even, the shape is terrible but I realize some people would).

2) opens this type of hand 3S and then refuses to answer a keycard inquiry properly since because they know they lied initially and are trying to compensate for it by somehow thinking 5S is now simply to play.

3) apparently routinely likes to double (and redouble) any and all contracts at the drop of a hat. I see lots of -800, -1000, -1100, -1200, -1600, -1700 and yes, even one minus 2200(!!) in their results for the last month. This person obviously has some very poor evaluation skills (imo) or they just like to double and redouble whenever they get a chance.

You should pass 5S, as you know from your hand that it is an impossible answer.

jmoo.

[manudude03]

I must say, I tend not to research any partner I play with on BBO. I wonder what he would've done if I didn't have the ♠K either (hence making a 5♠ response possible) because then, I would expect 7NT to be cold, nevermind having to guess for it. I must admit myself that I do use quite a wide range for weak 2s myself (like 0-11 ), mainly in third seat though (my 1st/2nd seat weak 2s would be 5-9). I do find a lot of people redouble without asking themselves is there a way the contract is off.

At the end of the day about that hand, I felt there was a chance at 7NT (he only needs ♠xxxxxxx and any other shape for the rest of the hand that includes having the ♣A for 7NT to be cold). Did he think I would be able to see his alert?
All I can say is that in the 3 hands we did play together, 2 of the contracts were doubled.

He also seems to have a habit of not answering blackwood, just found another grand slam that got doubled and he alerted 5♥ (hearts were agreed) as bid not answer, same as on mine. Also found a hand where he went up to 6♥ unsupported with 4 points (and not a 12-1 hand ) opps bid 7♣ which he doubles and they made (unsurprisingly) a jump to 3nt on 12 points opposite a WJS which was admittedly a little weak too IMO.

The auction for that -2200 was just stupid, enough said auction is (going continuously W dealing in adverse vul (P-1C-P-1H-P-2H-P-4H-P-P-4S-X-6S-X-P-P-7S-X-P-P-XX-P-P-P). It was his partner who made the stupid bids towards the end, but the 4S bit he did make was on a 4144 8 count (with singleton Q). One of the -1700s was again foolish, if you're going to be in grand slam, you would expect to make a little more than 7 tricks, right? Overall, I just don't think this guy knows what he's doing. I'll stop talking before I get myself banned