[cherdano]

If it is correct that the USBF's lawyer pressed for a settlement including the suggested sanctions, then I am totally disgusted. Sorry I can't put it less strongly.
And if a significant part of the bridge world considered the proposed sanction even somewhere close to adequate, then that would seriously alienate me from the bridge world. (In fact this whole thread has been reminding me why I feel more at home among go players than among bridge players.)

[mrdct]

What a farce this seems to be turning into.

Surely an apology, a reprimand and a period of probabtion (during which the ladies could continue to earn a living so long as they don't reoffend) would've resolved the matter to everyone's satisfaction without having to get so litigious - but I guess "lawyering-up" is the American way.

With the USBF appearing to be living from hand-to-mouth anyway, and now facing the prospect of the ACBL pulling its funding, can they really afford to expose themselves to half a dozen lawsuits by professional bridge players being denied an opportunity to earn a living?

[jdonn]

The way the USBF is responding is causing me to wonder if I would even accept anything from them any more. Maybe but I'm not sure I could stand to. Ditto Arend (except I don't know go).

[Elianna]

kenrexford, on Nov 13 2007, 09:17 PM, said:

http://www.iht.com/a...erica/cards.php

http://nytimes.com/2...4brid.html?8dpc

It is starting to heat up, and outside of the bridge world.

Both of those articles seem to be by the same author. (Not to deny that two newspapers picked it up.)

[karlson]

The IHT and the NY Times are actually published by the same group.

[sceptic]

haha, this is very funny,they just needed a kick up the backside and apology would have been enough, Americans sure know how to make a mountain out of a molehill, I wonder if any of these people were responsible for looking for WMD a few years ago HAHAHA

[kenrexford]

If I am reading this correctly, it sounds like the USBF has let three of them off the hook because the three simply apologized that the may have offended some people. A very tame apology.

The remainder apparently told the USBF to take a flying flip. So, the USBF responded with a slap-down.

If this is accurate, if the remaining folks refused to simply apologize for possibly offending, then the "penalty" is not just for the sign. The penalty for the sign is to show some damned respect for others and issue the limited "I'm sorry that you were offended" apology all the rage these days.

Idiotic defiance of a simple request for an apology of this nature forced the issue, IMO. If you insist on your right as a Bridge Player to do that which offends many folks who support you, emotionally and financially, an act that no other Olympic competitor is allowed to do, then the agency sending you off to represent the rest of us has a duty to stop that sh%$ right now. If expressions of disappointment are futile, then sanctions are what is left.

[hrothgar]

The USBF has posted some interesting materials on its web site including a document titled "Statement regarding Damage to USBF" (available at http://www.usbf.org/index.php?option=com_c...368&Itemid=167)

While I don't agree with many of the organizations decisions, I do applaud its attempts at transparency. Its rare that one sees comments like the following published in publically available documents:

Quote

This reflects a complete disregard for the fact that the Chinese government, which does not exactly have a history of sympathetic views toward political dissent, provided the bulk of financial support for both the 2007 World Championship and the 2008 World Bridge Olympiad.

Some of the opinions brought forward in this document may lead to some interesting debates. For example, the section on "damages" focuses on the ability of the USBF to raise money. It notes that the behaviour of the Venice Cup Team might impact

1. The willingness of the ACBL to distribute funds
2. The willingness of corporate sponsors like Microsoft and the General Group to sponsor events
3. The willingness of foreign governments like China to subsidize events

This could lead to some interesitng discussions

[bid_em_up]

kenrexford, on Nov 14 2007, 08:34 AM, said:

If I am reading this correctly, it sounds like the USBF has let three of them off the hook because the three simply apologized that the may have offended some people.  A very tame apology.

The remainder apparently told the USBF to take a flying flip.  So, the USBF responded with a slap-down.

If this is accurate, if the remaining folks refused to simply apologize for possibly offending, then the "penalty" is not just for the sign.  The penalty for the sign is to show some damned respect for others and issue the limited "I'm sorry that you were offended" apology all the rage these days.

Idiotic defiance of a simple request for an apology of this nature forced the issue, IMO.  If you insist on your right as a Bridge Player to do that which offends many folks who support you, emotionally and financially, an act that no other Olympic competitor is allowed to do, then the agency sending you off to represent the rest of us has a duty to stop that sh%$ right now.  If expressions of disappointment are futile, then sanctions are what is left.

Nobody has been "let off the hook" as of yet.

This is copied from the USBF website:

"Meanwhile, the USBF Board, through Mr. Falk, offered three of the respondents—those who had submitted a prompt written apology before disciplinary proceedings were commenced—an opportunity to accept discipline and resolve the charge short of a hearing, subject to the approval of the Hearing Panel as to the sanction proposed. The Board later offered the remaining four respondents an opportunity to accept discipline and resolve this matter. No respondent has accepted the settlement offers."

Three of the ladies apologized. The USBF then stated if they would accept the (outrageous, imo) disciplinary actions outlined in the USBF attorneys letter, that they would not be subject to any further sanctions by the Hearing Panel. All of the other ladies have been given the same opportunity to apologize and accept the disciplinary actions outlined.

Should they fail to accept the outlined sanctions (including the apology), the disciplinary panel is apt to impose harsher penalties. At least, thats the way I read it.

[geller]

The money quote from the USBF statement.

Quote

The VCW [Venice Cup Women] have in no way acknowledged that the action has created a serious problem for the USBF. They instead have chosen to go on the offensive by extremely aggressive defensive actions, rather than simply acknowledging, “We made a mistake. What can we do to rectify the situation?”

Reading between the lines, the VCW (or at least some of them) have offended USBF officials (who may initially have been somewhat sympathetic) by not affecting contrition. If they had initially said they were sorry and wouldn't do it again they probably would have gotten off with a slap on the wrist....

[helene_t]

hrothgar said:

I do applaud its attempts at transparency

Not sure in whose interest this transparancy is. If it hadn't been for the USBF-generated publicity, this whole story would still have been confined to BBF, r.g.b., IMP, Democratic Underground, Jonottawa's blog and one or two other blogs. While it was certainly the Venice Cup team who started this mess, what USBF is doing now seems suicidal.

Quoting from New York Times

Greenberg said:

There was a lot of anti-Bush feeling, questioning of our Iraq policy and about torture,” Ms. Greenberg said. “I can’t tell you it was an overwhelming amount, but there were several specific comments, and there wasn’t the same warmth you usually feel at these events.

Kleinman said:

If the U.S.B.F. wants to impose conditions of membership that involve curtailment of free speech, then it cannot claim to represent our country in international competition

[jonottawa]

Ah, I get it now. They held up the wrong sign. The USBF would have been fine with a sign like:

"The Chinese government doesn't sympathize with political dissent."

I think the USBF owes the Chinese government an apology for posting such belligerent and arrogant western propaganda on their website. Did the USBF become a political organization all of a sudden?

Whoever's bright idea it was to post such inappropriate blather should of course be suspended from USBF events for a year, be required to do 200 hours of community service, and be required to sign a letter of apology, contrition, submission and self-flagellation authored by me.

After all, everybody knows that the reason there's no political dissent in China is that everybody loves the system of government there so much.

The USBF is carrying on very much like what I'd expect from these guys:

http://www.usbf.net/

[blackshoe]

From the USBF web site, with respect to the winners of the Venice Cup:

Quote

They instead have chosen to go on the offensive by extremely aggressive defensive actions

One wonders what these unspecified "extremely aggressive" actions are.

[jkljkl]

jonottawa, on Nov 14 2007, 11:20 AM, said:

Ah, I get it now.  They held up the wrong sign.  The USBF would have been fine with a sign like:

"The Chinese government doesn't sympathize with political dissent."

I think the USBF owes the Chinese government an apology for posting such belligerent and arrogant western propaganda on their website.  Did the USBF become a political organization all of a sudden? 

No, no Jon,

why such an angry answer? The solution is likely to be much more simple.

I suspect that some of those hollywood screenplay writers on strike felt bored and put up a story with some twists .....

"Aunt Usbf had to punish the kinky niece ViCtoria for her childish behaviour. One of the punishments was to not allow ViCtoria to go to the 18th Birthday party of a friend held at the World Bridge Olympiade.

But afterwards she felt somehow bad for having been so draconic. How could she make some amends without losing her face? A plan began to form in her mind ....

if I try hard to get the whole family disinvited from the party ViCtoria will not be left alone at home ....."

Hollywood at the best, tears, laughs and a drumfire of unxepected turnarounds to keep the spectator breathless.

[jonottawa]

EDIT: In response to this, I wrote this:

The following statement was written by one member of the ACBL:

Post-Shanghai Actions of deranged USBF meathead BoD ("DUMB")

It may be the case that the DUMB did not intentionally act detrimentally to the USBF. But the evidence suggests that is extremely unlikely. The DUMB have acted in a way that has, in fact, been extremely detrimental to the USBF.

1) The Venice Cup-winning team members ("VCTMs") held up a small hand-made sign during the victory ceremony in response to a handful of comments they'd received during the tournament about the policies of torture, kidnapping, preemptive war, indefinite detainment without trial, and various other traditionally unAmerican and inhuman policies advocated by the current president of the US.

2) This sign indicated that VCTMs had not voted for the current president. It was in poor taste and would not have met with Miss Manners' approval, but was in keeping with traditional long-standing US values of tolerance for open dissent and criticism of government, a government that has from the beginning been of, by and for the people, and which has earned the admiration of the world for tolerating, and occasionally even encouraging, such dissent.

3) It was not in any way critical of the Chinese hosts, the United States of America, any participants in the event, or openly critical of anyone at all. VCTMs waved US flags and sang the anthem as they held the sign.

4) A small percentage of the bridge community demanded that VCTMs be punished. A much larger percentage asked that either no action be taken or that minimal action be taken to ensure that such behavior not reoccur and that VCTMs acknowledge that they had offended some people with their behavior.

5) The DUMB took it upon themselves to escalate the situation by treating what was essentially a non-issue as an emergency, cataclysmic, outrageous affront. The DUMB harangued and bullied VCTMs, offering them what amounts to a lengthy prison sentence with a Scarlet Letter thrown in for good measure for what was, at worst, a misdemeanor.

6) Upon being informed of the decision, many of those members of the bridge community who had called for a slap on the wrist condemned the DUMB in unusually harsh language for their conduct.

7) The DUMB have acted in a way that is bad for bridge, bad for the USBF, and that diminishes us all as human beings. Their belligerent, arrogant, draconian conduct undermines the spirit of friendship, tolerance, sportsmanship and goodwill that the vast majority of bridge players aspire to. At this point, any loss of sponsorship, drop in membership, or any other negative repercussions stemming from recent events can be completely attributed to their behavior. Furthermore, their behavior has all but guaranteed that this incident will not be resolved in an appropriate and satisfactory manner.

8) The DUMB should all resign, effective immediately. The US bridge community has no obligation to coddle, foster, or protect the megalomaniacal ambitions of any demonstrably unqualified group to serve as its spokespeople. Once that has occurred, sanity prevailing,we can return to the issue of what, if anything, ought to be done with respect to VCTMs.

[hrothgar]

Jon: Out of curiousity, what luminary wrote said message?

If folks are going to post that type of material, they should do so publically.
"One member of the ACBL" doesn't really cut it...

[jonottawa]

hrothgar, on Nov 14 2007, 06:52 PM, said:

Jon: Out of curiousity, what luminary wrote said message?

If folks are going to post that type of material, they should do so publically.
"One member of the ACBL" doesn't really cut it...

Sorry, I thought it would be clear who wrote it. I was trying to parallel the original language, not remain anonymous.

[geller]

FWIW, at this instant the VC brouhaha is the #2 (upper top left) headline on the (liberal) news referral site BuzzFlash, with the headline:

Quote

Anti-Bush Sign Held Up by Champion American Women Bridge Players Becomes the Latest Target of Right-Wing Efforts to Suppress Free Speech

. They change the headlines often so this may not still be be there in a few hours.

[mrdct]

hrothgar, on Nov 14 2007, 08:56 AM, said:

Its rare that one sees comments like the following published in publically available documents:

Quote

This reflects a complete disregard for the fact that the Chinese government, which does not exactly have a history of sympathetic views toward political dissent, provided the bulk of financial support for both the 2007 World Championship and the 2008 World Bridge Olympiad.

I too found this statement extraordinary, particularly when prefaced by a statement to the effect that it has been adopted by ALL members of the USBF Board of Directors (nobody abstaining this time).

I can't think of any examples where a National Bridge Organisation (or indeed any other sport) has made a such a comment about the internal political situation in another country.

[geller]

There are now threads on the VC controversy at Wonkette and FireDogLake, two sites that don't normally cover bridge. Some of the nuances appear to have been lost.....