[cjames]

The auction goes (opps are silent) :

1♦-1♥-1♠-2NT

Does the 2NT bid promise a ♣stop? If not, why?

[Walddk]

In my book it does, but I also realise that you may be in trouble with certain 11-12 counts and no club stopper, unless you don't play fourth suit as game forcing (2♣).

This hand for instance:

♠ Q74
♥ AJ975
♦ KJ
♣ 862

1♦ - 1♥
1♠ - ??

Now you wish that 2♣ is no more than a one round force. If GF there is no descriptive call available, so one needs to improvise. I can't even say what I would choose at the table.

Roland

[the hog]

Yes it does, pretty much in any system and style played.

Also particularly playing the style that many of the more enlightened bidders here play, opener has shown 5+D and 4S. You would be pretty silly to suggest a NT contract without a C stopper.

[helene_t]

It certainly does. With the problems hands mentioned by Roland, it helps to play 1♠ promising 5+ ♦ as Ron recomends (although p could probably be 4-1-4-4) but otherwise you'll just have to choose your poison. Either underbid or overbid, or go for the possible 4-3 fit in diamonds which will turn out to be a 5-3 fit anyway.

[cjames]

Thanks for the answers, and I certainly agree that it should promise a stopper.

[han]

Assuming that 2C is gameforcing (which is isnæt for me but that aside), what do the enlightened bidders bid with Kxx Axxxx Ax xxx?

If you don't bid 2NT with that, would Qxx Axxxx Ax Jxx do it for you?

[jtfanclub]

Hannie, on Aug 15 2007, 10:10 AM, said:

Assuming that 2C is gameforcing (which is isnæt for me but that aside), what do the enlightened bidders bid with Kxx Axxxx Ax xxx?

2♠, unfortunately. If partner passes, I'm happy. If he doesn't, well, it may not turn out well. Luckily, partner has lots of forcing moves to make rather than blasting to 4 spades.

[jdonn]

Hannie, on Aug 15 2007, 10:10 AM, said:

Assuming that 2C is gameforcing (which is isnæt for me but that aside), what do the enlightened bidders bid with Kxx Axxxx Ax xxx?

If you don't bid 2NT with that, would Qxx Axxxx Ax Jxx do it for you?

Definitely not the first, although it admittedly has no bid. I really think 3♠ is not bad, our hand is very suit oriented and I don't see why 4♠ won't play well.

The second hand I would probably choose 2NT as the least of evils.

(Just now seeing the previous post) isn't 2♠ a massive underbid?? I think it's closer to 4 than 2.

[jtfanclub]

jdonn, on Aug 15 2007, 11:30 AM, said:

(Just now seeing the previous post) isn't 2♠ a massive underbid?? I think it's closer to 4 than 2.

Maybe. I guess it depends on how much partner would need to bid 2♠ on this auction, and how much you want to deduct for what appears to be no fit.

I'd never bid 4♠ regardless of count with only 3 card support, since this is almost certainly a 4-3 fit, and I have no compensating shortness in my hand.

[cherdano]

jdonn, on Aug 15 2007, 10:30 AM, said:

Hannie, on Aug 15 2007, 10:10 AM, said:

Assuming that 2C is gameforcing (which is isnæt for me but that aside), what do the enlightened bidders bid with Kxx Axxxx Ax xxx?

If you don't bid 2NT with that, would Qxx Axxxx Ax Jxx do it for you?

Definitely not the first, although it admittedly has no bid. I really think 3♠ is not bad, our hand is very suit oriented and I don't see why 4♠ won't play well.

The second hand I would probably choose 2NT as the least of evils.

(Just now seeing the previous post) isn't 2♠ a massive underbid?? I think it's closer to 4 than 2.

Yeah it's a massive underbid but one that could work very well, after the defense starts with three rounds of clubs you pretty much need solid spades and diamonds to make.

[kenrexford]

Yes, it promises a stopper.

And, I lie a lot.

[the hog]

Hannie, on Aug 15 2007, 10:10 PM, said:

Assuming that 2C is gameforcing (which is isnæt for me but that aside), what do the enlightened bidders bid with Kxx Axxxx Ax xxx?

If you don't bid 2NT with that, would Qxx Axxxx Ax Jxx do it for you?

Well, its not a gf for me either, but you certainly can't bid 2NT unless you are a masochist. A far too likely scenario is that pd raises to 3 and they cash the first 5 clubs. Anyway, this 5 control hand is pretty much worth a gf in some denomination. This is where something like xyz or better still, transfer checkback is nice.
I would bid 2C failing having any of the above in my "enlightened" bidding arsenal, Hannie.

[skjaeran]

My parnter would have shown 5+♦s and 4(+)♠s, so surely it would be stupid to bid 2NT without a stopper (or lenght) in ♣s.

Playing the xyz convention I'd rebid 2♣ to invite game. Over partner's 2♦ I'd rebid 2♠, alternatively I could rebid 2♥, but if partner holds a singleton, this would be bad. Over 2♠ partner might rebid 3♥, showing 4-3-5-1 (or 4-3-6-0), and I've got an easy raise to game.