[sceptic]

How if at all does making a take out double differ if opps open a short club,

[barmar]

Not much. When they bid 1♣, you should initially assume it's a real suit, and bid accordingly. There are only a small number of hand patterns that require opening a short club: 4=4=3=2 (outside their NT range) and 4=4=4=1, and the latter only if they have a conventional 1♦. So most of the time their 1♣ will look similar to standard 1♣.

[BebopKid]

Since the main objective of making the takeout double is to try to find a major suit fit with your partner, opponents use of a short club should not deter you from telling partner about your holding.

[gwnn]

Over a real suit, the t/o X will show 3 cards in each unbid suit.

Over the short ♣ or the 2+ ♦ (usually described as "natural or x-y balanced"), it makes sense to describe X as "3.5 cards in each major and almost unknown # (say 2+) of cards in the other minor". So you should respond in a major as often as possible, preferring this to om even with 3-3.

[Echognome]

barmar, on Jul 13 2007, 01:30 PM, said:

Not much. When they bid 1♣, you should initially assume it's a real suit, and bid accordingly. There are only a small number of hand patterns that require opening a short club: 4=4=3=2 (outside their NT range) and 4=4=4=1, and the latter only if they have a conventional 1♦. So most of the time their 1♣ will look similar to standard 1♣.

Not all short clubs are made the same.

I play one system where 1♣ is natural clubs, a weak NT, or a big NT (17-19 bal).

Then 1♦ is natural and unbal.

I have seen several different reasonable methods here. The main thing is to have an agreement with your partner.

Here are some possible methods:

Option 1 - Just treat the short minor as natural.
Dbl = takeout
1NT = strong NT with stopper
2♣ = michaels
overcalls natural
With long clubs, just pass and take action later.

Option 2 - multi-way dbl, 1NT for takeout
Dbl = clubs or a big hand (2♣ asks)
2♣ = michael's
1NT = weak takeout (~11-14)
overcalls natural

Option 3 - canape overcalls
Dbl = takeout
1♦/♥/♠/2♣ = 3+ cards, 2nd longest suit
1NT = strong NT with stopper

Option 4 - if you play a strong club, continue to play it!
Dbl = strong club
others as if RHO passed

I know of a good pair that was successful in playing option 4, although it's not my cup of tea. Again, the main thing is to decided on an option, then discuss all of the follow ups.

[ochinko]

I don't see any difference between doubling a 3+ and a 2+ ♣ bid. Such precision in competitive bidding is unattainable.

[paulg]

In a regular partnership it is worth considering playing 2♣ as natural and using 2♦ as Michaels.

Like Matt I know a good pair who play the following against short clubs, including Polish:

Dbl=I'd have opened 1♣ (so we now treat LHO's bid as interference)
1♦=5+ spades
1♥=natural
1♠=weak t/o of 1♣

[helene_t]

Depending on how likely 1♣ is to be a 3-card or less, you may agree to play 2♣ as natural.

[skjaeran]

helene_t, on Jul 14 2007, 09:20 PM, said:

Depending on how likely 1♣ is to be a 3-card or less, you may agree to play 2♣ as natural.

That's what I do with my regular partner, even if 1♣ promises 4+.
1NT=natural (15-18)
2♣=natural
2♦=wjo in one major
2M=weak/strong Michaels

[mike777]

sceptic, on Jul 13 2007, 04:14 PM, said:

How if at all does making a take out double differ if opps open a short club,

zero.

[mr1303]

In the world junior pairs in Slovakia last summer, I played strong club defence against 2+ 1C openings.

Had one or two poor results when they had a weak NT and it was our hand...