[Apollo81]

I don't think this is an appropriate hand for penalizing 1♠.

[bid_em_up]

The_Hog, on Jul 13 2007, 04:10 AM, said:

helene_t, on Jul 13 2007, 03:10 PM, said:

If I pass I deserve to be degraded to the 4th division, right?
snipped

No, I didn't say that Helene.

I pass, both times.

And yes you did....just not to Helene.

Rather than ask the question, in another attempt to ridicule someone.....it would be better to run a simulation.

When you do, just run it so that in your partnerships, you do not open 11 counts or bad 12 counts in 1st/2nd seats. Since I know that partner rates to have a better than garbage opening, it will work better to leave the double in.

[the hog]

bid_em_up, on Jul 14 2007, 05:06 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jul 13 2007, 04:10 AM, said:

helene_t, on Jul 13 2007, 03:10 PM, said:

If I pass I deserve to be degraded to the 4th division, right?
snipped

No, I didn't say that Helene.

I pass, both times.

And yes you did....just not to Helene.

Rather than ask the question, in another attempt to ridicule someone.....it would be better to run a simulation.

When you do, just run it so that in your partnerships, you do not open 11 counts or bad 12 counts in 1st/2nd seats. Since I know that partner rates to have a better than garbage opening, it will work better to leave the double in.

Hmm. Is English your native language? What I DID say way that anyone who passed the second time should be relegated to the 4th division.

[bid_em_up]

The_Hog, on Jul 11 2007, 05:54 PM, said:

Quote Bid em Up:

"If you tell me it isn't possible that partner has a hand such as:

J10xxx Kx xx Kxxx

I will tell you that you are lying. (He probably doesn't, and I may be dreaming, but....if you don't allow for it, you will never defend this hand when he does.)"

Anyone who passes a 1 level takeout X here with your posted hand deserves to be relegated to the 4th division. Fwiw I would 1NT with this hand over the 1S bid. If I was called to the telephone during the auction and the wine waiter bid my hand, I would now bid 2C.

Yes, English is my native language. Evidently, it is not yours, however. You are not the only one who can be a smart ass you know.

Because the statement she made was, "IF I pass, then I deserve to be regulated to the 4th division."

You said, "I did not say that, helene".

But you did.....if she passed.

I fully realized what you meant by that comment. You are implying helene is good enough not to pass.

But if she did.....then she would be right there in the 4th division along with the rest of us passers, according to your statement.

[bid_em_up]

deleted

[the hog]

Ho hum. It was obvious to everyone including the kitchen sink that the comment referred not to the initial pass, but rather the pass after partner doubled.

[bid_em_up]

The_Hog, on Jul 13 2007, 06:02 PM, said:

Ho hum. It was obvious to everyone including the kitchen sink that the comment referred not to the initial pass, but rather the pass after partner doubled.

Just as it was obvious to everyone, that she meant passing the 2nd time as well.

Keep trying though.

[Foxx]

The_Hog, on Jul 13 2007, 08:34 PM, said:

What I DID say way that anyone who passed the second time should be relegated to the 4th division.

Only if declarer makes it

[keylime]

Well put me in the 4th division then, because I am going to smoothly pass here and enjoy the torture declarer is going to have. If they come into what would for me be a strong club type auction, I'm converting. If you're going to bid, it's 3NT period. This concept of "all low-level doubles must be takeout" or "cooperative" is at times ridiculous. The Good Lord gave you J-T fifth of trumps with 2 kings that your pard is not banking on, with a short holding in pard's diamonds - nearly ideal conditions. To say that this hand is not a hand to penalize on, is simply not respecting your partner, and frankly I want to keep Larry around when this situation presents itself.

Pard is not reopening here on a junky 0-3-5-5. Pard has values that are "transferrable". Furthemore, pard on 0-3-5-5 is going to take a freebid anyway due to the fear of defending with a void, especially at IMPs. So, pard is probably 1-3-5-4 or a strong balanced hand with 2 spades.

[pclayton]

keylime, on Jul 13 2007, 07:21 PM, said:

Well put me in the 4th division then, because I am going to smoothly pass here and enjoy the torture declarer is going to have. If they come into what would for me be a strong club type auction, I'm converting. If you're going to bid, it's 3NT period. This concept of "all low-level doubles must be takeout" or "cooperative" is at times ridiculous. The Good Lord gave you J-T fifth of trumps with 2 kings that your pard is not banking on, with a short holding in pard's diamonds - nearly ideal conditions. To say that this hand is not a hand to penalize on, is simply not respecting your partner, and frankly I want to keep Larry around when this situation presents itself.

Pard is not reopening here on a junky 0-3-5-5. Pard has values that are "transferrable". Furthemore, pard on 0-3-5-5 is going to take a freebid anyway due to the fear of defending with a void, especially at IMPs. So, pard is probably 1-3-5-4 or a strong balanced hand with 2 spades.

Larry won't stick around if you start converting doubles like this from an 11-15 opener Dwayne

[keylime]

Phil,

If it's an 11-15 opener, he most likely wouldn't be balancing here. <chuckles>

That, and he would have probably opened his 4 card major if limited....

[skjaeran]

1. I don't agree with the 1st pass. I'd have bid 1NT.
2. I'd never be in this situation, but since I didn't plan to defend 1♠x, I must have thought my hand was too weak or flawed for a 1NT bid last time. Thus I'll bid 1NT now, which in that case should show a hand about this strong.