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Partner pre-empts and you have a moose

#1 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2007-July-14, 11:01

Scoring: MP


Partner opens 3C, which you have agreed to be a destructive pre-empt. What do you try?

You have only simple agreements here, i.e. suits are natural forcing, raises are natural not forcing, games are to play.
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#2 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2007-July-14, 11:04

3H, hopefully partner
enlihgtens me, over
4C, 4D.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#3 User is offline   bhall 

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Posted 2007-July-14, 13:14

Unless partner's 3♣ bids routinely include 4 ♦, the only likely game is in ♥. So, I would bid 3♥, planning to pass 4♣.
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#4 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-July-14, 16:16

3N could be the winner but I like my chances better trying to get to 4H so I'd bid 3H.
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#5 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2007-July-14, 20:15

3♥ for em as well
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#6 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2007-July-14, 20:29

I will go against the grain and bid 3NT here. My major concern is that pd with no H support will be forced to bid 4C.

If you have the agreement that pd cannot by pass 3NT then 3H may well be a winner, eg in this case pd can bid 3S over 3H with no support, allowing you to bid 3NT. However this does cause a problem if you have the S suit instead of H. Pd is forced to bid 3NT with no support and then the contract is wrong sided. I guess you pays your money and makes your choice.

All in all, I think 3NT is the most practical bid. Btw, how do YOU show a constructive minor pre empt?
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#7 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2007-July-15, 06:49

Actually, partner opened 2NT showing a destructive pre-empt in either minor, but I felt it was more of a judgment issue rather than a conventional issue.
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2007-July-15, 11:34

3H. If partner rebids 4c I'll pass.
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#9 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2007-July-16, 12:48

The problem with bidding 3H and then planning to pass a 4C rebid is that partner's suit probably is not playable opposite a void. There may be 3 or 4 trump losers.

I want to play in a red suit opposite a semblance of a fit. I am bidding 3H and then 4D over 4C.

3NT could be the winning action, but if that is the case then 4H or 5D will also probably make. Besides, in 3NT you might not have a club stopper!

By the way, it is certainly possible that partner could hold:

Jx
x
Qxx
Jxxxxxx

In that case, 6D has a lot of play (and 5D is a virtual lock). I certainly would not want to be in 4C.
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#10 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2007-July-16, 13:22

mr1303, on Jul 15 2007, 03:49 PM, said:

Actually, partner opened 2NT showing a destructive pre-empt in either minor, but I felt it was more of a judgment issue rather than a conventional issue.

Life is considerably easier after a 2NT opening.

Many pairs use a 3♦ response as asking for a 3 card fragment. This leaves you well positioned to find out if you have either a Heart fit or a Diamond fit below 3N.
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#11 User is offline   keylime 

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  Posted 2007-July-16, 13:30

3♥ barring the inability to find out about a major suit fragment for me. Even if pard has a doubleton heart, 4H should have some play here.
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#12 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2007-July-16, 13:34

hrothgar, on Jul 16 2007, 11:22 AM, said:

mr1303, on Jul 15 2007, 03:49 PM, said:

Actually, partner opened 2NT showing a destructive pre-empt in either minor, but I felt it was more of a judgment issue rather than a conventional issue.

Life is considerably easier after a 2NT opening.

Many pairs use a 3♦ response as asking for a 3 card fragment. This leaves you well positioned to find out if you have either a Heart fit or a Diamond fit below 3N.

3♦ over 3♣ can be similarly used. I had it on the cc for a few years but it never came up.
"Phil" on BBO
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#13 User is offline   pbleighton 

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Posted 2007-July-16, 13:52

Quote

I will go against the grain and bid 3NT here. My major concern is that pd with no H support will be forced to bid 4C.


Agree.

Peter
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#14 User is offline   Halo 

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Posted 2007-July-16, 14:55

3NT

I think it is unlikely 3C is our best score, so it's NT or try for hearts. My feeling is NT - just nine tricks!
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#15 User is offline   SoTired 

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Posted 2007-July-16, 15:06

If opener has 3♥, then 4H is probably our best spot. If opener has either red queen, then 3N will likely turn out best.

The problem is, if you bid 3H trying for a 5-3 heart fit, opener will bid 4C without hearts and you've passed 3N.

So using the Hamman's Rule, I bid 3N
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#16 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2007-July-16, 15:15

Well, partner had the heap as advertised.


Not sure what the best spot is, but very few contracts have any genuine play. I decided that 3C could well be high enough, but on the 5-2 trump split I went 1 off.
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#17 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-July-16, 23:42

I am late to this. I prefer 3♥ by a lot over 3NT for two reasons. One is that it's still conceivable to reach 3NT over 3♥, but it doesn't work in the opposite direction. The other is that if we bid 4♥ I really expect to make, but 3NT might do very badly if I bid that.
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