[Codo]

firmit, on Jun 24 2007, 02:56 AM, said:

North
♠ K93
♥ A9543
♦ A
♣ AJ84

South
♠ AQT876
♥ 8
♦ K762
♣ T7

Not hard to see the best contract, but how to reach it with 2/1? Impossible? Try strong 1♣ systems pls explain if relay's.

1 ♥ 1 NT (5+ Spades)
4 ♠ 4 NT
5 ♣ 6 ♠

is the best shot I have a a big advertisment for the Kaplan inversion, because I had more trouble after a natural 1 ♥ 1 ♠

There is another possible line if you don´t agree with 4 ♠:

1 ♥ 1 NT (5+ Spades)
3 ♠ 4 ♦

4 ♦ is a non serious slam try (n 3 NT), but surely enough for South to KC.

[hrothgar]

Codo, on Jun 24 2007, 03:02 PM, said:

1 ♥ 1 NT (5+ Spades)
4 ♠ 4 NT
5 ♣ 6 ♠

is the best shot I have a a big advertisement for the Kaplan inversion, because I had more trouble after a natural 1 ♥ 1 ♠

Wow... you must get to a LOT of hideous slams.

Just how many hands are consistent with that same auction?
How many of those offer ZERO play for 6 Spades?

[hotShot]

Not playing 2/1 just some sort of natural 5-card system without gf 4SF, whats wrong with:

1♥ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♦ (not 4SF just F1)
3NT - 4♠
4NT - 5m showing 1-4Aces
perhaps checking K's for the grand
6♠

even after a simple auction like:
1♥ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♠
4♦ or 4♠ - ?
4NT might be an option now since opener is forcing to / bidding game even opposite responders minimum, and after a fit is shown responders hand can be upgraded.

If don't think that it's necessarily easier to reach a slam with an 16HCP+dist. opener and 9HCP+dist responder using a strong club system.

[han]

My auction:

1H - 1S
2C - 2S
4S all pass.

Sorry partner.

[dake50]

S 1st: 1S-3C=GF S-raise: 3NT=2 tops; H-ask->no; D-ask->1top; 6S.
N 1st: 1C-S-xfer-> S-trump ask; -> as above.

[1eyedjack]

MOSCITO operates at a slightly lower limit on the 1C opener than in most other strong club auctions, so 1C is the clear opener. Playing standard precision I would hesitate to open 1C, but perhaps I am out of synch.

[kenrexford]

Tough slam to bid.

For me:

1♥ (obvious)-P-
2♠ (invitational jump shift)

Opener now expects HHxxxx in spades, plus something on the outside. He can count six spades and three Aces, for an assured 9 tricks. The "something else" on the outside should produce a tenth. The stiff in diamonds, unless we are really unlucky, will produce an eleventh.

Now, thinking through the options for a twelfth trick, there are:

(a.) hearts split 4-3, or 3-3/4-2 if partner has a doubleton
(b.) we might get two diamond ruffs
(c.) the club suit looks worthy

The simple bid now is a mundane 5♠, which will be accepted.

That's my auction. If you use a weak 2♠ jump, it also seems fairly easy to bid. 1♥-P-1♠-P-2♣-P-2♠ now shows constructive values. No need to come up with a way to justify a jump to 3♠. Sure, it might a priori look like a possible 6-loser hand if things go well (like partner opening 1♦ and rebidding 1NT), not so much now. So, a simple 8-11 2♠ call gets you to the same spot as my auction. The big problem now, strangely, us that Opener has shown too much of his hand and realizes that partner will downgrade a diamond king, which is a bad thing to do. However, the ability to jump to 4♦ as a splinter should yield a neat inference (one that keeps coming up when I play an "unbalanced diamond" 1♦ opening with folks). When partner "knows" that you could splinter, but you do not, then you must have a stiff honor (Ace or King). Hence, 5♠ -- partner now looks at that diamond King fondly and accepts.

[mikeh]

While I can see bidding 3♠ after 2♣, I frankly suspect that I would have chosen 2♠. Indeed, if I played wjs 2♠/1♥ (which I don't, usually), 2♠ is clear, since it is constructive.

I learned, a long time ago, that one usually downgraded on misfits, and here I am seeing that I should upgrade when partner shows length and presumed strength in my stiff and doubleton. And this by players who, based on other posts, don't hesitate to open 1=5=3=4 11 and 12 counts.

If I did bid 3♠, then N has a great hand. 4♠ is an underbid, keycard is silly (since the answer will often leave you guessing: QJ10xxx Kx xx KQx is a great slam, AJ108xx xx KQx xx is godawful... don't critique the 3♠ call too closely, these are very quick illustrations of the point about keycard)

So I think I'd make up josh's 4♦ bid as strong ♠ raise, but I would not have intended it, nor taken it, as silent on ♦ control... if pressed, I'd have said that it was typically something like Kxx AQJxx x AJxx or equivalent.

So, how can S bid more? Opposite Kxx AQJxx x KQxx, almost as good a hand, even the 5-level is not assured.

So I don't think I'd get there with most of my (strong) partners....

[1eyedjack]

jdonn, on Jun 23 2007, 08:38 PM, said:

1♥ 1♠
2♣ 3♠
4♦ 4♥
4NT etc
I have posted before that I really like the treatment of 4♦ here as artificial "really good spade raise". I don't think south can quite commit opposite that, since north could be worse (Kx AKxxx xx AQxx or something is an iffy slam). North can clearly go after 4♥.

I agree with Phil's comment. North has to wait for some kind of encouragement from south before just going to slam, lest he have like xx of hearts and clubs with all side values in diamonds. Also agree with Cherdano that Fluffy's auction is not plausible without a special agreement since 4♣ is natural, but disagree with the rest of his post that north can essentially go right to blackwood after 3♠.

Using 4♥ as last train may be a good idea, but as a general cue bid in the suit I generally shy away from cue bidding a singleton in a suit bid naturally by partner. Perhaps I shouldn't, but I worry that partner will get excited with a suit headed by KQ (expecting me to hold the Ace), when in practice it is about the worst that he can hold.

[skjaeran]

Agree with Mike and Han, I'd rebid 2♠ with the north hand. And I'm quite sure I'd miss this slam.

[firmit]

I really don't know - but why is nobody bidding 2♦? Are you all using it as GF? What if 4th suit was merely a round force, asking opener to clearify holding 5-4 11-14 or 15-17, maybe showing some kind of support?

1♥ 1♠
2♣ 2♦* F1 inv.values
3♠ shows maximum with 3 card support ♠, 3-5-1-4

Does this make it easier? I am using 2♦ as GF myself, so I could personally not use it - but this may be up for revision.

edit:
What is the main difference between 2♠ and 3♠ as responders second bid?

And the 1♥ 2♠ bid - with a 4 card suit on the side? I use this as a GF slamtry, so this is also new for me.

[P_Marlowe]

firmit, on Jun 24 2007, 05:09 PM, said:

I really don't know - but why is nobody bidding 2♦? Are you all using it as GF? What if 4th suit was merely a round force, asking opener to clearify holding 5-4 11-14 or 15-17, maybe showing some kind of support?

1♥ 1♠
2♣ 2♦* F1 inv.values
3♠ shows maximum with 3 card support ♠, 3-5-1-4

Does this make it easier? I am using 2♦ as GF myself, so I could personally not use it - but this may be up for revision.

edit:
What is the main difference between 2♠ and 3♠ as responders second bid?

And the 1♥ 2♠ bid - with a 4 card suit on the side? I use this as a GF slamtry, so this is also new for me.

Ok, I play FSF as inv.+

The main trouble in bidding 2D is not, that
partner will play me immediately for a stronger hand
after I bid 2D, but he will play me for a gameforcing
hand, if he does not bid spades (he does bid in the
current set up, but how do I know this beforehand?),
but when he bids something else and I bid spades later,
which now shows a strong hand with slam interest.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: The main difference between FSF as GF and inv.+ are the answers
by the partner, if you play FSF as GF, partner can make a waiting bid,
conserving space, he cant do that, if you play FSF as inv.+, because
the FSF bidder can pass partners answers.

[Foxx]

Stop in game, and hope for bad breaks.

[Fluffy]

firmit, on Jun 24 2007, 10:09 PM, said:

I really don't know - but why is nobody bidding 2♦? Are you all using it as GF? What if 4th suit was merely a round force, asking opener to clearify holding 5-4 11-14 or 15-17, maybe showing some kind of support?

I follow a rule that I like a lot: Never ask partner what he has when you can show what you have instead.

[Fluffy]

Hannie, on Jun 24 2007, 02:32 PM, said:

My auction:

1H - 1S
2C - 2S
4S all pass.

Sorry partner.

Shhh, Han look at the hands again, even you would have decent chances at 6♠, why would you stop short then?


Seriously, I can't tell if I would bid 2 or 3 spades at the table.

[Codo]

hrothgar, on Jun 24 2007, 09:10 PM, said:

Codo, on Jun 24 2007, 03:02 PM, said:

1 ♥ 1 NT (5+ Spades)
4 ♠ 4 NT
5 ♣  6 ♠

is the best shot I have a a big advertisement for the Kaplan inversion, because I had more trouble after a natural 1 ♥ 1 ♠

Wow... you must get to a LOT of hideous slams.

Just how many hands are consistent with that same auction?
How many of those offer ZERO play for 6 Spades?

What do you show with a jump to 4 Spade?
To my knowledge it shows a fit and about 19-20 points, no solid Hearts, no splinter.
You look at 16 HCPs, a singelton (2 Points) a first round control in each side suit and a KC in trump, so I would bet this hand qualifies?

Now from the other side of the table: You promised 5 spades and 5 HCPs. Now you have 9 HCPs, a sixt trump and a good shape. Or if you use the SEF evaluation:
9 HCPs, 2 P for the 9. trump, 1 for the doubelton and maybe some stuff for the singelton, even if I don´t know how to evaluate singeltons in pds suit.

Seems to be enough for a slam try and with 5 KCs and the queen you should have bid it, shoudln´t you?

I really belive that the knowledge about the 5. spade makes a significant difference, so that 4 Spade is no overbid, but if you stick to 3 Spade, taking a very conversative view, okay pd can sign off in game or bid a little invitation, both is possible.


Well with the auction there aren´t too many hands possible: Opener showed
Kxx, Axxxx,A,A and has some extras in terms of High cards and/or distribution.
He may have 4 Spades, or 6 Hearts, but he surely has more then
Kxx, AJxxx, Aj, AQx because he had opened 2 ♣/2 NT with this.

But feal free to construct hands, where 6 Spade has no play opposite a hand with
the given shape, there surely are some, (f.e. KJxx, AKQJx,AQ,xx) but I am willing to risk this possibility. And you can surely try cuebids instead of RCKB if you want to avoid this slam...

[han]

Fluffy, on Jun 25 2007, 01:50 AM, said:

Shhh, Han look at the hands again, even you would have decent chances at 6♠

I suspect that I would win the diamond lead, pull trumps in 3 rounds and claim 4S making.

[mike777]

Upon reflection I stand corrected. Too tough.

I guess rebidding 2spades and only get to 4 is only choice.

Rare bird of a hand, too tough.