[inquiry]

Scoring: IMP

West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 Pass  2NT   Pass  3♣
 3♥    4♣    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5♠    Dbl   Pass
 Pass  6♣    Pass  Pass
 Dbl   Pass  Pass  Pass
 

3♣ was stayman, 4NT was an attempt to play 4NT. 5♠ was answer to blackwood, and 6♣ was to play.

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Opening lead, ♠9 to either Queen-King or 8-small. If and when you play a top club, small clubs appear from both opponent.

[mike777]

You got to be a really great great player to get to these contracts on this bidding.

[inquiry]

mike777, on Mar 28 2007, 10:49 PM, said:

You got to be a really great great player to get to these contracts on this bidding.

i didn't bid it.... i didn't play it... i just found it.... the play has an interesting point, i think. Maybe i am wrong, but i think you can make it single dummy. I know you can make it double dummy.

[Apollo81]

Is there a better play than small club to the ♣10 hoping doubler started with x KJ10xx xxx QJ7x?

[inquiry]

Apollo81, on Mar 29 2007, 08:35 AM, said:

Is there a better play than small club to the ♣10 hoping doubler started with x KJ10xx xxx QJ7x?

I could be wrong, but I think there is... In addition, small club to the ten risk an immediate spade ruff if the ♠9 was a singleton. I am not exactly sure why the double of 5♠ with KT at best (and surely has the KT), but it could be KT-sixth. I was wondering if the "correct play" can be easily found. After the spade lead, there is a possible timing issue missed by all declearers in 6♣ and no doubt I would have missed it if I had not seen it as a double dummy problem because I didn't look into the situation deeply enough at first.

[Apollo81]

For the line I suggested you need the ♠9 to have been singleton so there is room for that hand to hold 3 diamonds along with its 5-4 in the round suits.

[inquiry]

Apollo81, on Mar 29 2007, 09:23 AM, said:

For the line I suggested you need the ♠9 to have been singleton so there is room for that hand to hold 3 diamonds along with its 5-4 in the round suits.

Ok, so you will play EAST for the spade and diamond stoppers and expose him to an eventual S=D squeeze since WEST can not knock out the spade entry to south. However, this line requires WEST to misplay by not putting up the Q from QJ9x... If he has that desired hand, I will have him split his clubs at trick two... You have no way to avoid two club losers I think.

[bid_em_up]

I think the most legitimate line is to play West for 1-6-3-3 including the QJx of clubs (so he can't profitably unblock) or 1-7-2-3.

Win the spade, cash the AK clubs, the A of hearts, the AK of diamonds, and hopefully he has followed all this time. Now the 3rd club. West should be endplayed at this point being forced to either allow me to score the heart K, or if he has a diamond exit, they were 3-3.

Granted both of holdings are unlikely, but they are at least feasible given the auction. (West doubling on the prayer that partner has the A of spades, and his trump trick.)

Hard to see anything better single-dummy, as I think you are going down anytime either opponent holds 4 or more clubs.

[Apollo81]

inquiry, on Mar 29 2007, 10:50 AM, said:

Apollo81, on Mar 29 2007, 09:23 AM, said:

For the line I suggested you need the ♠9 to have been singleton so there is room for that hand to hold 3 diamonds along with its 5-4 in the round suits.

Ok, so you will play EAST for the spade and diamond stoppers and expose him to an eventual S=D squeeze since WEST can not knock out the spade entry to south. However, this line requires WEST to misplay by not putting up the Q from QJ9x... If he has that desired hand, I will have him split his clubs at trick two... You have no way to avoid two club losers I think.

Read my original post.

I suggested to play for QJ7x of clubs onside, not QJ9x -- and no squeeze is necessary if LHO has the hand I stated.

[inquiry]

bid_em_up, on Mar 29 2007, 11:08 AM, said:

I think the most legitimate line is to play West for 1-6-3-3 including the QJx of clubs (so he can't profitably unblock) or 1-7-2-3.

Win the spade, cash the AK clubs, the A of hearts, the AK of diamonds, and hopefully he has followed all this time. Now the 3rd club. West should be endplayed at this point being forced to either allow me to score the heart K, or if he has a diamond exit, they were 3-3.

Very nicely played, ok.. So you cash the AK of clubs, both follow. You cash heart ACE, no harm, both follow. You cash the Diamond AK (great and necessary play I think... if diamonds 3-3 no harm done) and exit with a third club.

Here is the double rub. East, not West wins the third club (a bit of a surprise I guess, as both follow). But on the two rounds of diamonds, EAST also dropped two of the three top missing diamonds (JT9). East exits with a spade and west shows out.

[bid_em_up]

Apollo81, on Mar 29 2007, 08:35 AM, said:

Is there a better play than small club to the ♣10 hoping doubler started with x KJ10xx xxx QJ7x?

Would you really bid 3H on this?

[ArcLight]

What am I missing?
West has shown up with:
3 clubs
1 spade
and since east followed to 1 round of hearts, presumably 6 hearts, for the 3♥ bid on KJxxxx

Would West bid 3♥ with just 5?

I don't think so.
That leaves room for 3 Dimes.
Reject the finesse play them top to bottom.


What was wests double based on?
Was it based on what he though easts values were?

[bid_em_up]

inquiry, on Mar 29 2007, 11:17 AM, said:

bid_em_up, on Mar 29 2007, 11:08 AM, said:

I think the most legitimate line is to play West for 1-6-3-3 including the QJx  of clubs (so he can't profitably unblock) or 1-7-2-3.

Win the spade, cash the AK clubs, the A of hearts, the AK of diamonds, and hopefully he has followed all this time. Now the 3rd club.  West should be endplayed at this point being forced to either allow me to score the heart K, or if he has a diamond exit, they were 3-3.

Very nicely played, ok.. So you cash the AK of clubs, both follow. You cash heart ACE, no harm, both follow. You cash the Diamond AK (great and necessary play I think... if diamonds 3-3 no harm done) and exit with a third club.

Here is the double rub. East, not West wins the third club (a bit of a surprise I guess, as both follow). But on the two rounds of diamonds, EAST also dropped two of the three top missing diamonds (JT9). East exits with a spade and west shows out.

At this point, I will play for diamonds to be 3-3 because:

1) I don't think West would/should bid 3H on 1-5-4-3. I think he is 1-6-3-3.
2) If he did bid 3H on 1-5-4-3, then East had a 2nd heart to exit with and would have been equally likely to exit with it instead of the spade.
3) I finally realized that if West was 1-7-2-3, then East would have ruffed the Ace of hearts.....duh.

The only detracting factor in West bidding 3H on 1-5-4-3 is the X of 6C. The X is sheer lunacy. If he is bad enough to double 6C, then he is probably bad enough to bid 3H on 1-5-4-3 as well. But I do not think that this is a strong enough inference to tip the scales in favor of playing for this holding. (Maybe it should be, but....)

I play for 3-3 diamonds.

[Apollo81]

bid_em_up, on Mar 29 2007, 12:19 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Mar 29 2007, 08:35 AM, said:

Is there a better play than small club to the ♣10 hoping doubler started with x KJ10xx xxx QJ7x?

Would you really bid 3H on this?

I can't imagine a hand that would fail to open 2♥ or 3♥ but then call 3♥ after (2NT)-p-(3♣)

I thought the one I gave was much more likely than a single suiter with 6+♥ but maybe I just don't understand people....

[Apollo81]

Quote

I play for 3-3 diamonds.

I would finesse. I still think West would have preempted on 1633....

[inquiry]

Ok here is the hand. Apollo got one of the key questions right. If West was 1633 how come no weak two to start off. So he considered at least 1543 a possibility. The double of 6♣ sounds like maybe 4-2 club split, but if it is, you have to find west with precisely QJ7x (not QJ9x, nor Q9xx, nor J9xx). I initially overlooked the possible squeeze if WEST is QJ7x so the play suggested to take that line into account has merit.

IF however, you play for clubs to be 3-3, then the trick is how to make. The answer is either diamonds are 3-3 or, West has four diamonds and EAST has JT, T9, or J9 doubleton. There is also the possibility that East has QJ doubleton of clubs and west four with 1-6-2-4 and the squeeze that Apollo suggested when playing for QJ7x.

But once you decide to go for 3-3 clubs, the key play is to cash two top diamonds before playing the third trump. Take or don't take the heart ace, but you must cash the two top diamonds, because you have only one entry to your hand should you discover or suspect that diamonds are 4-2... with EAST having the appropriate doubleton. Playing the ♦AK before the third round of trumps is a great timing play that would be overlooked often I think -- extremely well done bid_em_up,

Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 Pass  2NT   Pass  3♣
 3♥    4♣    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5♠    Dbl   Pass
 Pass  6♣    Pass  Pass
 Dbl   Pass  Pass  Pass
 

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