[42]

Hi experts!
Defining a system for a new longtime partnership *hope*, we are now at the point to discuss the dbl-section.
How useful do you find the snapdragon dbl? I do not ask how frequently it is
Do you and you standard partner have it as gadget in your system?
Do you miss the penalty dbl?

Tia,
Caren

[DrTodd13]

I always use snapdragon when partner knows it. I've never missed the penalty double. It might even be more correct to call the alternative a lead-director because have you ever heard of this penalty double being passed out and it resulting in a good score for the doubler? It partner passes the first time but backs in with a double after responder rebids his suit then that would be penalty and would be more reasonable since it isn't at the 1-level.

[pclayton]

I've played snapdragons for a few years and I think they are kind of pointless. You are generally in a no-fit auction and getting the 4th suit in is sort of a "me-too" kind of bid. But I use them in conjunction with my split 3 card raises (which I really do like).

What we've been playing is this:

Over a negative double: "one-under" is our constructive raise, a direct raise is weak and a redouble shows the one under suit. So:

After (1♣) - 1♠ - (double) -

2♠ = weak with 3 pieces; 3-7 points
2♥ = constructive 3 card raise; 8- 10 (-)
redouble = hearts

After (1♣) - 1♠ - (2♦) -

2♠ - weak 3 card raise
2♥ - constructive 3 card raise
Double (snapdragonish) - hearts (but no spade tolerance inferred)

[42]

Thx so far, useful as ever
PLEASE: feel free to give advices also for other specific dbl-situations which are necessary to be discussed (the standard dbls like the good old penalty dbl, neg. dbl in several situations, support dbl and "reversed Rosenkrantz" (I don't know if it has an own name) are already on. Thx, Justin, for the hint >neg. free bids<!!!!
Caren

[han]

Instead of having an agreement for every specific auction, it would be a good idea to have a meta-agreement for when a double is penalty and when it is not. Something like "Double is take-out oriented (which includes snap-dragon) unless Blah-Blah".

[Winstonm]

I have a little different take on snapdragon doubles - so what else is new - but I think their real value is uncovering a 4-4 major fit.

1D-2C-2H/2S-?

I would prefer to snapdragon with a club raise that happens to hold 4 of the unbid major.

KJxx, xx, Jxxx, KJx.
or
x, QJ10x, Axxx, Jxxx

When partner holds:

Axxx, xx, Ax AQ10xx
or
xx, Axxx, x, AKQxxx

It becomes hard to play in spades with a club raise and a 3 or 4 heart bid by LHO.

Winston

[helene_t]

I haven't found Snapdragon to be particularely useful but on the other hand, I cannot imagine any other use of that dbl and maybe snapdragon will lead to a good result one day:)

Penalty is not an option unless opps play NFB.

I agree very much with Han (Hannie).

[Gerben42]

On other doubles:

Discuss if support doubles are mandatory or not. What about after 1NT intervention?

Game try double?

Discuss when dbl is negative or penalty after 1NT (overcall).

What about later doubles after you doubled a weak NT.

Lead direction doubles.

If you bid a suit and then double opponents cuebid in that suit, do you want the suit led or not? Example:

(1♦) 1♠ (2♥) Pass
(2♠) Dbl

What kind of support does this show?

(1♥) 1♠ (2♠) Dbl

or if you failed to support before, lead or no lead?

(1♥) 1♠ (2♥) PASS
(2NT) Pass (3♠) Dbl

Simple one:

(4♠) Dbl

Some Polish Club ones:

1♣ (p) 1♦ (2♥) Dbl

and similar

[Robert]

Hi everyone

One Italian system(Ambra) has the agreement that all doubles are for takeout except when prior agreement has defined them as penalty.

Modern style is to play almost all doubles as non penalty meanings.

I find that this style leads to 'more' penalty situations rather than less.

Playing negative doubles over my 1NT opening, the partner that is 'short' doubles and the partner with the trump stack passes.

If we find that the other pair has found a fit, we can bid 'on' to discover our own fit.

Snapdragon is O.K., however, other choices appeal more to me.

If I hold a long suit that is worth 'showing' I bid the suit.

My doubles are used to show various 'other' hand types.

You do not give up penalty doubles playing doubles 'meaning' something else.
Often a 'penalty' pass allows partner to reopen with a take out type double and you 'pass' his takeout double for penalties.

The auction 1M-2m-p is sometimes made with a 'trump stack' and partner often reopens holding 'shortness' so the penalty is only 'delayed' instead of an 'old' fashioned 'direct' penalty double.

Regards,
Robert