[Poky]

pass 1♦ dbl 1♠
2♥ pass pass dbl
???

What are now:
rdbl
2♠
2NT
3♣
3♦
3♥?

[FrancesHinden]

It depends what the double means.
I would be surprised to see any of these except 2NT and 3C at the table
If double is take-out:

rdbl: I have a good hand, probably fairly balanced, interested in penalising
2S: I have four spades and 5 hearts and want to compete
2NT: I also have 4 clubs, pick 3 of a rounded suit
3C: I have 4 hearts and 5 clubs
3D: doesn't exist (4 hearts & 6 diamonds, perhaps?)
3H: I wanted to bid 3H last round, but didn't want you to raise.

If double is penalties, a lot of them don't exist

[Fluffy]

RDBL: 10-11
2♠ unavaible
2NT unavaible
3♣ 4-5
3♦ unavaible
3♥ I would guess 5♥+5♣, but I am not sure, anyway its to preempt.

[ochinko]

All the bids sound strange after 2H, but should mean a maximum (or close to maximum) passed hand. The only exception is the last one which is the strangest. First five contain 4 hearts, the last one - 5.

They sound like we didn't see an Ace in our cards, and all of a sudden invite to game.

rdbl - just points, no direction
2Sp - cue bid, forcing to 3H
2NT - I stop the spades (twice ?), but don't guarantee a diamond stopper
3C - I have 4 clubs as well. Could be even 5 at MP, or if much weaker than the hearts
3D - I stop the diamonds (twice ?), you can consider 3NT
3H - competitive, 5 hearts, following the LOTT. This is the weakest of all HCP-wise. I don't expect LHO to pass 2Hx, and I don't expect to make a defensive trick, so please partner either sacrifice or pass, don't double them. I could even have 6 hearts and a hand that was too weak even for a 2H opening.

Petko

[FrancesHinden]

It's interesting that Justin agrees that 2NT and 3C both show hearts and clubs, but I think 3C shows much longer clubs and 2NT equal length, whereas he has it the other way round.

Compare with these auctions:
1D (4H) P P
4NT

1D (4H) P P
5C

I think the first shows a 5D bid with secondary clubs (maybe 6-4 or 7-4) and the second serious clubs (5-5 or 6-6 or 6-5). Justin probably agrees (I think this is pretty standard).

So my logic says when extended to this auction that you bid the second suit when you are more serious about them, and bid NT when you are less serious about the second suit.

Justin's says you bid NT with a disparity and the second suit with equal length.

Both make some sense, but result in different bids.

[pclayton]

Poky, on Oct 27 2005, 05:03 AM, said:

pass 1♦ dbl 1♠
2♥ pass pass dbl
???

What are now:
rdbl
2♠
2NT
3♣
3♦
3♥?

What are now:

rdbl - Max 2♥, only 4 hearts. Something like: xxx, AKxx, QTxx, xx.

2♠ - Doesn't make sense, although I suppose some max 4-5 could fit: AQxx, Kxxxx, xx, xx.

2NT - Definitely doesn't make sense. With clubs, bid 'em. Could this be some kind of good/bad? Hmm.

3♣ - Probably 5-6 clubs and 4 hearts and a max.

3♦ - 4 hearts and 7 diamonds.

3♥ - 5 (6-8 points) or 6 hearts (any HCP) - competitive. This is probably a stupid way to play this.

[luke warm]

Poky, on Oct 27 2005, 08:03 AM, said:

What are now:
rdbl
2♠
2NT
3♣
3♦
3♥?

assuming the x was takeout:

xx - hey, you doubled... do you like hearts or not, i have 4+ of them
2s - for me this can only show 4 spades and 5+ hearts since i'd have x'd 1s to expose the psych (opposite p's t/o x) with equal or shorter hearts
2nt - diamond stop(s), spade stop(s), hearts, but i *did* pass eh?
3c - clubs?
3d - sigh... makes my teeth hurt
3h - beats the hell outta me

[Kalvan14]

It looks like that the majority understands 2♠ as spades . IMHO, if S wanted to expose the psyche by RHO (the bidding sequence was (1♦)-X-(1♠)) he should have doubled on the 1st round, to avoid messing up the auction later. Pard's X should promise at least 3-4 in the majors, unless it is a strong hand. So an immediate penalty double should be the best.
I would understand 2♠ as a maximum of the passed hand (while 3♥ would be a minimum).
Agreed for the interpretation of 2N/3♣ (both ♥/♣, the former with longer ♥).
3♦ would be quite surprising: the only possible meaning would be again a max 2♥, with 3-4 small cards in ♦ (a kind of long suit trial, but without values which would be wasted. xx - KJxxx - xxx - KJx would be a minimum for this bid).
XX is certainly a maximum balanced hand, with interest in penalising.

It's an interesting thread.

Edited a misprint

[FrancesHinden]

I agree that South would usually have doubled 1S the previous round with spades. But perhaps we was concerned there was a heart game available?

It's more that I couldn't think of any other meaning for 2S, than I think it will be a common auction.

[han]

Agree with Frances's meanings.

[mila85]

Poky, on Oct 27 2005, 08:03 AM, said:

pass 1♦ dbl 1♠
2♥ pass pass dbl
???

What are now:
rdbl
2♠
2NT
3♣
3♦
3♥?

rdbl. - maximum (10-11) and I need a swing (it's too speculative)
2♠ - 5-5, 10-11 hcp
2nt,3♣ - ♥+♣? I can't imagine a hand where I want to show clubs. And I prefer not to use 2nt because partner is guessing what I want to say
3♦ - ??? I would always respond 3♥ to this bid
3♥ - preemtive

[000002]

In this case,20HCP vs 20HCP now

show your hand to ur dear partner, please. let him can shape to proceed the competition.
2♠ or 3♦=0/1 in those

[Kalvan14]

Sorry, guys: I will never consider 2♠ as showing spades.
Even the idea of having 2♠ and 3♦ as short suit trials is a bit farfetched.
If you try to build up a conventional structure catering for all competitive bid situations you will never see the end. Better, IMO, to agree on a basic structure as natural as possible.

[000002]

natural ? dangerous

[Kalvan14]

000002, on Nov 1 2005, 07:57 PM, said:

natural ? dangerous

Maybe I should have put inverted commas : "natural". After all, the structure I proposed was not exactly natural. OTOH, I do believe that my tretment was not completely conventional: the meanings of the bids could be re-constructed by logic.

I'm a bit surprised by the equation natural=dangerous. Should it not be the other way around? very conventional=dangerous