[jillybean]

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No xyz
No 2 way nmf

Teams

[mike777]

4S after 1NT?

[paulg]

South seems to playing some convention but mike777 is right, this looks like a simple 4♠ over the 1NT.

Conventions will often cause information leakage with no benefit when you have a simple bid available.

[mw64ahw]

Conventions not needed
You have a suit quality of 11 plus enough shape for 4♠ limiting your overall strength.

[jillybean]

Partner opened, I have 2 aces and 7 almost impenetrable spades, and also 2 terrible doubletons.
If I had xyz/2wnmf available I would not be bidding 4♠ (over 1nt)

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2026-July-06, 13:11, said:

Partner opened, I have 2 aces and 7 almost impenetrable spades, and also 2 terrible doubletons.
If I has xyz/2wnmf available I would not be bidding 4♠

You have a GF, you have 7 tricks in your hand, facing an opening hand, and only that,
the opener is limited.
As it is, you wont have a chance to find out, if partners hand fits, but you will have a
fair chance making 10 tricks, opener needs to have 3 tricks, so bid it and be done with it.
As it is now, partner will bid 2H with AK in H, K in Spades, and 2 Jacks in the minors,
and 10 tricks are cold.

The problem is, if you now bid 4S, and partner is looking at those 3 tricks, he may be
wondering, if he can pass.

[kerkido]

jillybean, on 2026-July-06, 13:11, said:

Partner opened, I have 2 aces and 7 almost impenetrable spades, and also 2 terrible doubletons.
If I has xyz/2wnmf available I would not be bidding 4♠

I don't get it, what you would bid instead? Surely partner can't cover 5 of your 6 losers with a balanced minimum to make slam viable, so are you looking to find a better game than 4♠?

[mikeh]

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve told an intermediate or advanced player: when you know where you want to play….bid it!

There are several reasons for this.

The simplest and most basic is to ensure that you get to the correct spot in a fashion that tells partner that she is no longer involved…she has NO right to do anything but pass. This prevents auctions from going off the rails.

Another important consideration, which gains strength as the quality of your opponents increases, is that you minimize information leakage. Consider had partner opened 1m and over 1N you bid 2D, xyz. Partner now describes her hand…and the opps are listening. Probably won’t matter but I promise you that telling smart opponents unnecessarily disclosed information hurts more often than it helps.

Thirdly, and this only matters with strong partners who know how to think at the bridge table, compare these two auctions:

1H 1S 1N 2D 2H 2S……

1H 1S 1N 4S

In the first one you are bidding slowly. 2D forced to game and now 2S shows 6+ spades and…drumroll please….slam interest. Why? Because why else would you not have bid 4S over 1N?

Now consider an intermediate sequence. 1H 1S 1N 2D 2H 4S. This is not a strong slam try, but it has to show more than simply wanting to play 4S…why didn’t you bid 4S last time?

An expert partner will look at his hand and, with a super maximum, may take a call over 4S.

Never…never ever use two different sequences, after the initial round of bidding, to show the same hand. When 1H 1S 1N 4S is ‘to play’, going through 2D first HAS to show a different hand.

Now, in fairness, bidding 2D then 4S will almost never get opener bidding since you had even stronger sequences available after 2D. But it’s akin to the difference between 1N 4H 4S and 1N 2H 2S 4S when playing both texas and jacoby transfers. Going through 2H then bidding game shows mild slam interest while bidding 4H shows either no slam interest (passing next) or strong interest. The point being that one does not use both sequences to show the same hand.


One of the downsides to players adopting conventions is that they tend to overuse them. Conventions and agreements are of enormous value if they are coherently chosen….the system is not some semi random collection of misfitting gadgets but a holistically designed machine for bidding…and the partners are capable of remembering them. But knowing how to use a convention is only part of learning them…one needs to understand when not to use them. Here, xyz should be utterly irrelevant.

Maybe I misunderstood JB when she said she’d use xyz if available…was this because she wasn’t sure of game or thought there might be a slam?

Sure, one can construct hands where game fails. But if that’s how you play team bridge, you may as well not bother entering the event. Against even marginally competent opps, if 4S is doomed, it will be a push. No imp player worthy of the name would avoid game here.

And as for slam….ok….it’s barely possible that slam could be 50% but, even if it is, you’re not likely to find out and the search for slam will help the defence, sometimes a lot.

[jillybean]

Yes, you misunderstood.
I would use XYZ because I am sure of game and thought slam may be a possibility.
I know I want to play in spades, I know we can play in 4, I don't know if we can play in 6
4♠/1nt shows no slam interest

1♥ 1♠
1N 2♣*
2♥ 4♠
Is better but poor partner is now under the gun. This is beginning to feel like a hand for 2♣ any gf treatment.
edit, but we will use up all the saved space to show the 7th spade

[mikeh]

Try constructing hands for partner on which slam is better than a finesse

Even if you can, ask whether you can ever find out.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2026-July-06, 18:07, said:

Yes, you misunderstood.
I would use XYZ because I am sure of game and thought slam may be a possibility.
I know I want to play in spades, I know we can play in 4, I don't know if we can play in 6
4♠/1nt shows no slam interest

1♥ 1♠
1N 2♣*
2♥ 4♠
Is better but poor partner is now under the gun. This is beginning to feel like a hand for 2♣ any gf treatment.
edit, but we will use up all the saved space to show the 7th spade

You have 6 loosers, that needs to be covered, and you are facing a weak NT opener,
you also need him to have at least 2nd round control in 2 suits, this means
6-7HCP of his 12-14 are already placed, leaving 5-7 to distribute, and to cover 3
of the remaining 4 loosers.
If you give him 3 Kings (ideally including the King of trumps, and an Ace) you are still
on 50%, if they hit the suit that happens to be protected only by the sole King from p.

[WasWinM]

jillybean, on 2026-July-06, 18:07, said:

Yes, you misunderstood.
I would use XYZ because I am sure of game and thought slam may be a possibility.
I know I want to play in spades, I know we can play in 4, I don't know if we can play in 6
4♠/1nt shows no slam interest

1♥ 1♠
1N 2♣*
2♥ 4♠
Is better but poor partner is now under the gun. This is beginning to feel like a hand for 2♣ any gf treatment.
edit, but we will use up all the saved space to show the 7th spade

Your rose-colored glasses look good on you but ....