[Cyberyeti]

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we have the agreement that all doubles are takeout except...

one of the exceptions is auctions like (1♦)-X-(1♥)-X which is for penalties

but not discussed this specific sort of auction

before I give the hand, what do you think the following bids mean:

X
2♥
2♠
2N

[mikeh]

A logical meaning for 2H might be ‘I have hearts well stopped, game interest in notrump but nothing in diamonds’, hoping to protect west’s diamond holding.

X is takeout but this is a situation depends on specific agreements (which you may not have) or a meta agreement, useful for when specific agreements haven’t been discussed. In my main partnership, the double of 2D is takeout oriented pursuant to our meta agreements.

Plus, on a frequency basis, penalty will be rare. If east has decent diamonds (he need not have a stack, since he can logically hope that west has some diamonds…or was prepared to handle a diamond advance (possibly as high as 3D) over his balancing double but he also needs a heart stack (since west will usually be short in hearts) otherwise NS will surely run to 2H. Thus while using east’s double as takeout means that once in a long while NS escape a penalty, that would require a rare hand type for east. And even then, sometimes west can reopen with a second double.

2S is competitive. Doesn’t promise 5.

2N is modest opening values with hearts well stopped (for a broad definition of well stopped), fewer than 4 spades and a little something (or more)in diamonds. Say something resembling Kxx KQx Qxx Kxxx

[Cyberyeti]

OK, I thought X would be penalties with our meta agreements, how would you adjust the other bids ?

[HardVector]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-March-09, 12:53, said:

OK, I thought X would be penalties with our meta agreements, how would you adjust the other bids ?

2h - takeout for black suits
2s - spades
2n - good/bad? clubs
3c - good clubs?

In this sequence, the whole good/bad thing doesn't have a lot of utility, but if their suit was spades, it would have more use.

[Cyberyeti]

HardVector, on 2026-March-09, 16:43, said:

2h - takeout for black suits
2s - spades
2n - good/bad? clubs
3c - good clubs?

In this sequence, the whole good/bad thing doesn't have a lot of utility, but if their suit was spades, it would have more use.

Does 2♠ show 5 in this scheme ?

The actual vul was EW, so I can see a natural 2N also being sensible trying for 3N rather than doubling them

[Zelandakh]

It seems that the most important hand to be able to show is the one with opening values that had to pass over 1♥, so I don't see any reason not to use a cue for this traditional purpose:

X = optional takeout (enough values for a conversion pass)
2♥ = constructive cue, typically a WNT hand
2♠ = competitive

Then just assign the rest according to your meta rules as otherwise it will get forgotten. Most likely 2NT is either natural (so similar to 2♥ but slightly less stuff) or G/B Lebensohl and any other calls will be obvious after that.

[Cyberyeti]

So what's your choice with K9xx, KQ8x, Q10xx, x

[mikeh]

Seems unlikely that south will pass. So I pass and intend to double 2H.

Once in a while our methods (for every pair and every method) will leave us stuck. I gave up fretting over this years ago. Tweak your system to cater to the rare hand and yiu weaken it on more common hands. C’est la vie.

Edit: given my hand, at mps I bid 2S. I’d only looked at the red suits when I posted above. I’d be more aggressive but the auction suggests nothing is breaking well.

[Cyberyeti]

Partner did bid 2♠, I decided he had 5 of them so we played 4♠ opposite QJ8, xx, AJ, AKQ10xx, spades were 5-1, it could have been made on the lead partner got, but he didn't make it, 2redx is a bloodbath.

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-March-15, 16:21, said:

Partner did bid 2♠, I decided he had 5 of them so we played 4♠ opposite QJ8, xx, AJ, AKQ10xx, spades were 5-1, it could have been made on the lead partner got, but he didn't make it, 2redx is a bloodbath.

If he had five and the values for game, don’t you think he might have overcalled? Surely you could have cuebid along the way and reached the seemingly cold 3N?