[SDesert]

Hi,
I remember i found years ago a system which was using the opening of 1 heart to gather all balanced hands fron 12 to 17H, maybe also 4441 15-17 (this i am not sure).
Do any of you know from which system it was and where to find the developments - impossible for me to find on the net?
Thanks

[DavidKok]

You might have been thinking of Groove?

• 1♣: 4(+)♥, unbal, any strength, may be a minor canapé.
  
• 1♦: 4(+)♠, unbal, any strength, may be a minor canapé.
  
• 1♥: 9-15 balanced.
  
• 1♠: 16+ [balanced or 6(+)m or exactly 54 in the minors]
  
• 1NT: 9-15 (54) or longer in the minors, no 4cM.
  
• 2♣: 9-15 6(+)♣, no 4cM.
  
• 2♦: 9-15 6(+)♦, no 4cM.
  
• 2♥: Weak (preemptive).
  
• 2♠: Weak (preemptive).
  
• 2NT: 16+ 55 or longer in the minors.

Over the 1♥ the responses are as follows:

• 1♠: Invitational(+) (approx 11+), over which 1NT is 9-12 and then 'system on', while immediate 2♣+ is 13-15 and artificial descriptive.
  
• 1NT: ???
  
• 2♣+: Weak, to play (but may be raised with a good fit).

[SDesert]

Thx for prompt answer.
It was not 'Groove' wrt opening ranges but it was the same idea - although i am pretty sure it also including any strong 4441 with higher range (13-15 in case of Groove).
Although the point range does not matter as the system can easily adjust the ranges.

Can you share the Groove system to see how it works: cannot find it on the net?

I suspect it makes sense to pass 1 heart when responder is weak with 5 hearts (btw it also adds little pressure to 1st opponent which may not be able to bid if the other players do pass...)
2X could be natural to play against any NT - hence up to 8 hcp (9 ugly) and 5+ cards
3X preemptive with 6+ cards

One sure point is we do not want to get higher than 1NT when opener has a strong NT and responder is weak thus i agree with Groove that the 1 spade relay can not be a weak hand because opener will
describe his hand according to something like:
1H-1S-?
... 1NT: weak NT and system on
... 2C: strong NT
... 2D/H/S/NT: strong 4441 with singleton in lower suit

Therefore 1S shall have at least invitational value against a strong NT, say 10+ hcp

This leaves 1NT when responder as a weak hand willing to play 1NT even over a strong NT

What do you think?
This was the object of my question, to not reinvent the wheel ;-)

Thanks for reading

[DavidKok]

I think this makes sense, but I wonder about the utility of the 1♥-1NT sequence. Responder is denying any 5-card suit, denying the strength for a positive response, and couldn't pass 1♥. Wouldn't we rather scramble to a 4-4 fit at the 2-level in such a scenario, rather than play 1NT? I get we can't have it both ways, but it feels weird. My normal rule of thumb is that if we have 17 or fewer combined hcp then I generally prefer scrambling to a trump suit rather than play 1NT (especially if said scrambling can be done at the 1-level). If opener can have (say) 10 hcp then the 1NT would require about.. 8? But the invitational hands start at about 10 ish, so the window gets very narrow. I don't know what to think here, but maybe 1♥-1NT should not be a mandate to play there.

Your 1♥-1♠; 2♣ sequence seems not ideal. You're allocating a lot of useful bidding space to rare 4441-type hands, especially if they have a limited range. In return your NT auction starts a step higher. I ghet that it's invitational+ or even game forcing by now, but I'd rather zoom with the strong balanced hand and absorb 4441 elsewhere (or pick the smallest lie).