[jillybean]

Kibitzing a team game. Let's start with a little UI South opened 1nt 15-17 then corrected to 1C 17+

---

What are your methods, over strong nt? I have none.

[thepossum]

It is very tricky
I am considering a minor transfer followed by a splinter and cue bids
But I could miss a better slam in hearts or no trumps
But I thought you said the opening bid was 1 club

Back to NT. Is it possible to bid hearts over the minor transfer and find a possible heart fit before slam control
So maybe 2S!-3C-3H-see what happens
or 2NT!-3C-3D!- etc

Am struggling to find bids that work in my 2/1

[mw64ahw]

I'm sure you must have methods
a) is there a ♥ fit?
b) 4♣ SI if not or bid ♣ & ♣ again if 4♣ is Gerber
1N-2♣ non-promissory 5cM ask
2♦ deny-2♠ 4♥
2/3N - 4♣ SI

Default method-bid 6♣

[thepossum]

mw64ahw, on 2026-January-28, 00:32, said:

Default method-bid 6♣

I don't want to miss grand in anything but a slam is a slam I guess

I ran some hands through dealer with GiB. I struggled to safely get past 3NT

I even tried a few with Gerber lol. if you have all the controls go grand, if not small in clubs
Minor transfer and straight to Blackwood could be ok I guess but sad if you miss out on sufficient information
Stayman and hope for hearts

Running some basic sims with honours I guess Blackwood clubs is the go, and check for the queen
Yet another hand where RKCB and the Queen ask then needs a standard king ask - then you can count to 13

I am quite happy in 6 clubs

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

being 7-4, it is a good idea, if if you ignore the 4 carder and
treat it as a single suited hand.
If you want to go via stayman anyway, you need to be sure, that 2S
over a 2H Stayman response is the forcing heart raise, if you have
doubt forget about Stayman.

I would bid 3C forcing, and over 3NT rebid 4C, setting clubs and
asking for Cue bids.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cyberyeti]

P_Marlowe, on 2026-January-28, 03:41, said:

Hi,

being 7-4, it is a good idea, if if you ignore the 4 carder and
treat it as a single suited hand.
If you want to go via stayman anyway, you need to be sure, that 2S
over a 2H Stayman response is the forcing heart raise, if you have
doubt forget about Stayman.

I would bid 3C forcing, and over 3NT rebid 4C, setting clubs and
asking for Cue bids.

With kind regards
Marlowe

TBF you can bid 4♦ over 2♥ if you stayman, for us 2♠ is MSS, 3♠ is the forcing heart raise.

The obvious hand you want to play in hearts is Axx, KQ10x, KJxx, QJ where you have 13 in hearts but 12 in clubs.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2026-January-27, 21:35, said:

Kibitzing a team game. Let's start with a little UI South opened 1nt 15-17 then corrected to 1C 17+.

What did Director have to say?

 jillybean, on 2026-January-27, 21:35, said:

What are your methods, over strong nt? I have none.

Surely even a standard 4 card Stayman should allow you to show clubs over a 2D or 2S reply?

We bid our 5 card Stayman and then over the probable reply of 2D denying a 5 card major we bid 2S, enquiring for hearts. If that has no luck then we at least get a range signal which annulls the UI. Now we bid 3H showing 5+ clubs, if partner says 3NT then pull to 4C and press button B. Sooner or later a control-bid will drop.

[P_Marlowe]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-January-28, 06:20, said:

TBF you can bid 4♦ over 2♥ if you stayman, for us 2♠ is MSS, 3♠ is the forcing heart raise.

The obvious hand you want to play in hearts is Axx, KQ10x, KJxx, QJ where you have 13 in hearts but 12 in clubs.

4D is an option.

[pescetom]

 P_Marlowe, on 2026-January-28, 08:25, said:

4D is an option.

Over a 2H response in a 4 card Stayman I prefer 4m to be a control-bid fixing hearts rather than specifically a splinter or void splinter; partner is balanced and limited and knows that I have a clear view of the situation, whether short in the minor or not.
So 4C here and now we can stop in 4H if Opener lacks spades control (although 450 may be scarce consolation if those who blasted a slam are making on a diamonds lead).

[jillybean]

---

The auction at the table was 1nt corrected to 1C, north bid a natural 2C gf but for most, it
would start 1nt.

I don't want to use stayman to check for a heart fit and then try to introduce my 7 card club suit
I don't have Minor Suit Stayman over 1nt, so I start with a simple transfer. Are we in gf?

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2026-January-28, 09:14, said:

I don't want to use stayman to check for a heart fit and then try to introduce my 7 card club suit
I don't have Minor Suit Stayman over 1nt, so I start with a simple transfer.

Why do you not want to use Stayman then introduce your 7 card clubs suit?
It seems entirely logical to me.
As it happens, the transfer will work just as well, but you might be missing 7 hearts or simply a better MP score in 6 hearts.

I don't understand your transfer auction much. Was 2S also Range Ask? If not, then I would expect the "like" bid to be 2NT, not 3C. And was 3H natural? I think it's standard that a suit is splinter here.

[jillybean]

Will partner ever envision a 4M 7C hand if I start with stayman? It seems to be a gross distortion of the hand.
I didn't play this hand, the auction posted is just a simple 2S relay to clubs, pass or correct. Think pickup partner.

2S:2N*
4D:4S
6C?

[mw64ahw]

pescetom, on 2026-January-28, 09:23, said:

Why do you not want to use Stayman then introduce your 7 card clubs suit?
It seems entirely logical to me.
As it happens, the transfer will work just as well, but you might be missing 7 hearts or simply a better MP score in 6 hearts.

I don't understand your transfer auction much. Was 2S also Range Ask? If not, then I would expect the "like" bid to be 2NT, not 3C. And was 3H natural? I think it's standard that a suit is splinter here.

Jillybean's auction is one you'll find in Terrance Quested's online book on NT bidding

[mike777]

jillybean, on 2026-January-27, 21:35, said:

Kibitzing a team game. Let's start with a little UI South opened 1nt 15-17 then corrected to 1C 17+

---

What are your methods, over strong nt? I have none.

6C, yes I have a plane to catch

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2026-January-28, 06:57, said:

What did Director have to say?

Play on, call me back if you think you have been damaged.

[mw64ahw]

pescetom, on 2026-January-28, 09:23, said:

I don't understand your transfer auction much. Was 2S also Range Ask? If not, then I would expect the "like" bid to be 2NT, not 3C. And was 3H natural? I think it's standard that a suit is splinter here.

3♣ is the better bid for slam going hands as the NT bidder with the tenaces may get a freebie i.e a ♦ lead here.
Splinter is usual although I've also seen:
3♦ xx55
3♥ ♥ splinter/semi-balanced
.. 3♠ concern about ♥
3♠ ♠ splinter
3N ♦ splinter
4♣ SI ♦ splinter

[Cyberyeti]

We would start this 1N-2♣-2♠-4♣ slammish, 4♥6+♣ using our system (which yes does differ over 2♥ and 2♠ stayman responses)

[pescetom]

mw64ahw, on 2026-January-28, 09:53, said:

3♣ is the better bid for slam going hands as the NT bidder with the tenaces may get a freebie i.e a ♦ lead here.

We play 2♠ as Range Ask and so for us 2NT/3♣ is not explicitly about clubs slam prospects. But without that, I always understood that it was normal to play the intermediate step of a minor transfer (2NT in this case) as positive about slam, which is also consistent with the general meta-rule that merely completing a transfer denies enthusiasm.
Agree with your point about protecting tenaces, but it is a fairly small target (Opener is positive about slam and has tenaces, Responder has a shortage and makes the final decision) and you could always play that if NT bidder so desires he may bid 4♣ over a splinter without denying any controls.

But like any convention, the important thing is not the bells and whistles but that you are both singing from the same page. Minor transfers are a minefield with anything but a regular partner and IMO it is better to agree not to play them with a pickup or a beginner.

[pescetom]

mw64ahw, on 2026-January-28, 09:41, said:

Jillybean's auction is one you'll find in Terrance Quested's online book on NT bidding

I have not read it, but I have seen negative comments about the quality of content on his web site, despite EU data protection laws.
I don't see much logic in giving priority to showing a side suit rather than shortage, when a 4 card major could already have been indicated by Stayman. The situation is not analogous to a Jacoby transfer where our first suit might only be 5 cards and so the second suit is effective in defining shape and we have plenty of space to seek slam in either suit.
But yes there is no real standard here (even BWS dodges developments), so it is vital to agree detail with partner.

[mw64ahw]

pescetom, on 2026-January-28, 15:54, said:

I have not read it, but I have seen negative comments about the quality of content on his web site, despite EU data protection laws.
I don't see much logic in giving priority to showing a side suit rather than shortage, when a 4 card major could already have been indicated by Stayman. The situation is not analogous to a Jacoby transfer where our first suit might only be 5 cards and we have plenty of space to seek slam in either suit.
But yes there is no real standard here (even BWS dodges developments), so it is vital to agree detail with partner.

Much of the content is comparing methods and a resource I used when starting out. I'm not sure I use much of any conclusions in my current approach.