[steve2005]

For those who don't know the standard responses to 1§ showing 16+ hcp in Meck-lite or Standard Modern Precision with all the gadgets are
This is the standard responses to SMP. Now 11 hcp hand with good controls and good suits can be upgraded to 12 hcp
1¨ 0-7 hcp. May upgrade a good 7 hcp hand to a positive response, F1
1© any hand with 8-11 hcp but denies 5+ spades, GF
1ª 8+ hcp 5+ spades, GF
1NT 12+ hcp, 5+ hearts and denies 5+ spades, GF
2§ 12+ hcp 5+ clubs, denies 5+ spades, GF
2¨ 12+ hcp 5+ diamonds, denies 5+ spades, GF
2© 14+ hcp balanced, GF
2ª 12+ hcp and any 4-4-4-1 hand, GF
2NT 12-13 hcp balanced, GF.
My changes. Instead of using balanced hands I propose using flat hands. Flat hands are 4-4-3-2 or 4-3-3-3 so deny 5-3-3-2. (5-3-3-2 hands are treated as 1-suiter as in KK relay) This is used in KK relay.
For flat hcp I am using the ranges of 8-11, 12-14 and 15+ with 4+ controls (hands with less than 4 controls are treated as 12-14). These ranges are used in KK relay.
Also I want to include the 15+ hcp flat hands in the 1♥ response, so it is important that there is a big difference in hand strength between 8-11 and 15 hcp hands (rather than using 14 hcp) I will be including 15+ hcp hands with 4+ controls in the 1♥ response.
With 15+ hcp don't make a game bid which could be considered a sign-off. With 15+ hcp and opener signs-off in 3NT, show the number of your controls with 4§=4, 4¨=5etc. With 15+ hcp and opener signs-off in a suit, show the number of KC for the suit and if opener sign-off in slam without using KC then raise to 7. When responder makes one of these impossible bids after a sign-off opener will know responder is 15+ hcp flat. The 2NT response will show 12-14 hcp flat This enables the 4441 hands with 12+ hcp can be shown by a double jump in the singleton. This enables major suit singletons to be shown at a lower level.

The new responses are:
1¨ 0-7 hcp. May upgrade a good 7 hcp hand to a positive response, F1
1© 15+ hcp flat and 4+ controls or any hand with 8-11 hcp but denies 5+ spades, GF
1ª 8+ hcp 5+ spades, GF
1NT 12+ hcp, 5+ hearts and denies 5+ spades, GF
2§ 12+ hcp 5+ clubs, denies a 5-card major, GF
2¨ 12+ hcp 5+ diamonds, denies a 5-card major, GF
2© 12+ hcp 4=1=4=4 with singleton heart, GF
2ª 12+ hcp 1=4=4=4 with singleton spade, GF
2NT 12-14 hcp flat, denies a 5-card suit, GF
3§ 12+ hcp 4=4=4=1 with singleton club, GF
3¨ 12+ hcp 4=4=1=4 with singleton diamond, GF

[pilun]

From a relay background, it seems strange that 1NT+ are reserved for the rare super-positives.
From Kiwi club (late 70s), 1♥ response was 12+ any, imposing reverse relay, 1♠+ were 8-11. Something like ....

1♦ = 0-7
1♥ = 12+ any (then opener's 1♠ = hearts, etc)
1♠ = 4+♥s, 8-11
1NT = 4+♠, not 4♥s
2♣ = 8-11 flat (maybe 2♦ showed that. I forget.)

It's not clear why SMP doesn't do something like the above.
I don't play the method. I'm interested in the thinking behind the swap.

[steve2005]

pilun, on 2025-February-10, 18:21, said:

It's not clear why SMP doesn't do something like the above.
I don't play the method. I'm interested in the thinking behind the swap.

SMP isn't a relay system. It splits into 0-7, 8-11 and 12+ so that you know slam is a possibility with 12+. To make memory load fairly low and you only have long sequences if one side has slam ambitions

There is a relay method over 1S to get all shapes and whether 8-11 or 12+. But it doesn't give exact shapes as in a true relay system

[pilun]

steve2005, on 2025-February-10, 19:31, said:

SMP isn't a relay system. It splits into 0-7, 8-11 and 12+ so that you know slam is a possibility with 12+. To make memory load fairly low and you only have long sequences if one side has slam ambitions

There is a relay method over 1S to get all shapes and whether 8-11 or 12+. But it doesn't give exact shapes as in a true relay system

Nothing to do with relay. It's

0-7 any / 8-11 any / 12+ descriptive

vs

0-7 any / 12+ any / 8-11 descriptive

[PrecisionL]

Interesting. I took the opposite view and included 5332 hands into the balanced response (8-13) and modified KK Relay to adjust for a weak 5-cd suit (not 2 honors). We can relay to show any 5-cd suit and then look for 4-card Majors and finally 4-cd minors. We don't relay out the exact 4432 distributions early.

I put the 12+ hands into one response (if not balanced). Thus, the normal positives get more use and practice.

[foobar]

 PrecisionL, on 2025-February-11, 10:21, said:

Interesting. I took the opposite view and included 5332 hands into the balanced response (8-13) and modified KK Relay to adjust for a weak 5-cd suit (not 2 honors). We can relay to show any 5-cd suit and then look for 4-card Majors and finally 4-cd minors. We don't relay out the exact 4432 distributions early.

I put the 12+ hands into one response (if not balanced). Thus, the normal positives get more use and practice.

This sounds like an interesting approach. Can you outline the details? Also, I am guessing that the 14+ balanced hands have a response that's presumably similar to the 8- 13 balanced? Also, the balanced splits I have seen before are usually 8-11 /15+, 12-14, so how does your scheme work?

[PrecisionL]

Long ago Rodwell proposed 1♣ - 2♦: 8-10 (?) as the balanced hand response. We tried that in 2006 and liked it so well that we enlarged the range to 8-13 (Cohen-Berkowitz range). A few years ago we added 5332 hands (if the 5 didn't include 2 of the top 3 honors). KK Relay does not include 5332 in balanced hands (also uses 2♦ as the response to 1♣ for balanced hands).

Our Current Design:

1♣ (16+) - 2♦ (8-13) - 2♥ = Relay asking about 5-cd suits

2♠ = No 5-cd suit

2NT = Asking for 4-cd suits

3♣ = 4-4 Minors: (3-2)=4=4

3♦ = 4♥

3♥ = 4♠

3♠ = 3=3=3=4

3NT = 3=3=4=3

2NT = 5♣ (1-Under)

3♣ = 5♦

3♦ = 5♥

3♥ = 5♠

2♠ - SAB in ♠

2NT = SAB in ♥

3♣ = SAB in ♣

3♦ = SAB in ♦

14+ balanced hands are rare and are included in the 1♥ response to 1♣ (shown be 1NT rebid by responder).

The 2♦ response is the most frequent after the negative 1♦ response and Opener sets trumps (when he finds a fit) which is a Beta for controls (A/Ks). All this often occurs under 3NT.

[foobar]

 PrecisionL, on 2025-February-12, 22:03, said:

14+ balanced hands are rare and are included in the 1♥ response to 1♣ (shown be 1NT rebid by responder).

The 2♦ response is the most frequent after the negative 1♦ response and Opener sets trumps (when he finds a fit) which is a Beta for controls (A/Ks). All this often occurs under 3NT.

Is the 1H response spades or 14+ balanced? Do the rest pretty much follow the KK relay?

[PrecisionL]

foobar, on 2025-February-13, 15:32, said:

Is the 1H response spades or 14+ balanced? Do the rest pretty much follow the KK relay?

No and No we do not follow the KK Relay design as 1♣ - 2♦ includes 5332 hands.

1♣ - 1♥ (GF, 4+♠ or 14+ Balanced) - 1♠ (Asking) -

1NT = 14+ Balanced
2♣ = canape with ♣ longer than ♠
2♦ = canape with ♦ longer than ♠
2♥ = canape with ♥ longer than ♠
2♠ = 1- or 2-suited with 5 or more ♠, may have a 4-cd minor.

2NT: Relay - Do you have a minor?