[apollo1201]

Or, in that case, less😁😁

[foobar]

Yes, putting the 5M332 11-13 balanced in 1♦ and the 14-16 5M332 in 1N is the exact approach used by SCUM. That way the 1M opening is always unbalanced in 1st and 2nd, the 3rd/4th can open either 1♦ or 1M based on tactical considerations.

[Shugart23]

 foobar, on 2024-March-09, 16:32, said:

Yes, putting the 5M332 11-13 balanced in 1♦ and the 14-16 5M332 in 1N is the exact approach used by SCUM. That way the 1M opening is always unbalanced in 1st and 2nd, the 3rd/4th can open either 1♦ or 1M based on tactical considerations.

thanks...What I had posted but it had failed to upload, was basically :what is the downside of throwing in the week 5M332 hand into the 1D bid, and partner bids up the line showing 3 card Majors, whilst 1NT,2NT, and 3NT bids all show both 3 card Majors held, and just varying HCP count. If Opener has only a 4 card Major, he responds 1NT to partner's 1M. You shouldn't end up in a 4-3 fit at the 2 level with this approach

I tried to google SCUM convention but didn't find it ...can anyone supply a link ?

Would opening 1D with a 5 card major be alertable under ACBL ?

[ulven]

Why would you bid 3-card majors freely in that approach?

[Shugart23]

 ulven, on 2024-March-10, 07:09, said:

Why would you bid 3-card majors freely in that approach?

That's how you find your 5-3 Major fit........if there is one

[ulven]

The point is not to find every 5-3 fit. You would only respond 1M on 3 with a hand that doesn't mind playing on a 4-3 fit.

[Shugart23]

 ulven, on 2024-March-10, 08:33, said:

The point is not to find every 5-3 fit. You would only respond 1M on 3 with a hand that doesn't mind playing on a 4-3 fit.

why do you say that ? I think there is a consensus that with a 5-3 fit, you are better off playing 2M vs 1NT. (My guess is 1Nt is better than 2M if 4-3).

[DavidKok]

Yes, but the difference is small, especially if the 5 card suit is a 5332. The idea of SCUM is to gain on the 1M openings because they always show an unbalanced hand, which has implications on a number of auctions. For example, after 1M-2♣, the 2NT rebid is artificial (well, actually many bids are artificial here, but the most obviously non-natural rebid is 2NT). And 1♠-1NT is 100% forcing without having to worry about the semiforcing versus forcing discussion, as the only hand type that might prefer to pass (balanced) is not contained in the opening.

But 1♦-1M still shows four, because the large majority of the time opener does not have a five card major in the 1♦ opening. This way you find your 4-4 fits easily and get powerhouse 1M openings, at the risk of the 5-3 fit when opener has got a 5M332 - similar to opening 1NT with that shape. Though if responder is game forcing I think the 5-3 fit can be found after the 1♦ start.

Furthermore, at the game level 3NT often plays better than 4M in the 5-3 fit when opener is balanced. 4M needs to score two extra tricks for it to be better at IMPs, which usually does not happen. There is little that can be ruffed in dummy with only three trumps and a balanced hand opposite, so the main situation where 4M wins is if a side suit is wide open, which is rare with an opening facing an opening. By contrast, requiring a trick fewer matters every time.

Lastly I expect that there are single dummy advantages beyond the double dummy estimates. The defenders might well have trouble catering to a possible five card major that was not shown on the auction.

Personally I prefer other Precision variants to SCUM, but I do think the style has definite upsides (along with definite weaknesses).

[ulven]

"Personally I prefer other Precision variants to SCUM, but I do think the style has definite upsides (along with definite weaknesses)."

Please clarify what you consider to be definite weaknesses.

[DavidKok]

We've had conversations on this before if I'm not mistaken, and also I don't wish to hijack the thread.

[foobar]

 DavidKok, on 2024-March-10, 10:41, said:

We've had conversations on this before if I'm not mistaken, and also I don't wish to hijack the thread.

FWIW, I do think that a discussion is germane to this thread, but if you feel strongly otherwise, others might benefit from a new thread.