[jillybean]

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4th seat, both NV

Playing 12-14 or 15-17 nt, no method show this hand.

If you open 1♥ is it modern, aggressive 4th seat opener or just stupid?

If you agree this hand has "too much playing strength" to pass please explain.

[Cyberyeti]

Most weak NT pairs include 11s in 4th seat, and tactically I think 1N or pass are the opening bids for this hand.

[Douglas43]

11 hcp and 2 spades. I'll pass.

[apollo1201]

3rd seat yes, 4th seat a bit risky

[steve2005]

K&R gives this 10.75
unless partner has K/ten♦ QJ usless

[bluenikki]

[quote name='jillybean' timestamp='1707495579' post='1061679']

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If you open 1♥ is it modern, aggressive 4th seat opener or just stupid?

/quote]
It's praying partner has 4+ ♠.

[pilowsky]

I'm going to pass hoping others will open and get less than 0.
What would you do if 3rd seat opened 1♣ and you had this hand?

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

[jillybean]

pilowsky, on 2024-February-09, 21:27, said:

I'm going to pass hoping others will open and get less than 0.
What would you do if 3rd seat opened 1♣ and you had this hand?

An easy 1♥. wtp

I'm happy to see pass is unanimous.

[pescetom]

Late to the thread, but stupid for me (don't see anything modern in probably going down when I can score equal).

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2024-February-10, 16:33, said:

Late to the thread, but stupid for me (don't see anything modern in probably going down when I can score equal).

Depends on what opening bids look like where you are, if most 11s are opened, opps in 1st and 3rd may be more likely to open than your pd in 2nd, the worst that's likely to be going on is that you have half the deck, and you may have a bit more. If you have to open 1♥ there is an obvious spade issue, but if you can open 1N, it's reasonable to do so. We play that if it was a balanced 11 you didn't open, you don't invite now over 1N, and if it's a 14 that wants to play game opposite an 11 that doesn't open you upgrade it in 4th so the NT opener is 11-not great 14.

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2024-February-10, 16:46, said:

Depends on what opening bids look like where you are, if most 11s are opened, opps in 1st and 3rd may be more likely to open than your pd in 2nd, the worst that's likely to be going on is that you have half the deck, and you may have a bit more. If you have to open 1♥ there is an obvious spade issue, but if you can open 1N, it's reasonable to do so. We play that if it was a balanced 11 you didn't open, you don't invite now over 1N, and if it's a 14 that wants to play game opposite an 11 that doesn't open you upgrade it in 4th so the NT opener is 11-not great 14.

Fair enough about differences of system, nobody here would open most 11s.
But opening in 4th seat says "I think it is probable we can score positive" and I don't feel that about this hand looking at the minor suits.

[Gilithin]

I think whichever of 1NT and 2♥ you play as weak in 4th seat seems sensible. If you play both of these as intermediate (or more), it's a somewhat thorny problem and now not passing is begging for -110. To pilowsky, what would you do with this hand if RHO had opened 1♦? This 1♣ argument simply does not hold water.

[mycroft]

Playing K/S, there is a small chance partner had to pass a misshapen quacky 13, and we'll miss game. Oops.

Otherwise, I like bluenikki's response. P-P-P-1suit auctions always seem to generate "no more passes until the 3 level" auctions; and they (if anybody) have spades, so they're in the driver's seat after 3 of a round suit.

Zero is almost always worth some matchpoints (I expect 6.5-3.5 on a 10 top, one way or the other); this looks like the time to take insurance.