[giorgis_di]

Hello,

I cannot recall where I saw such a development, but in a very brief terms these are the responses after 1 Major opening:

2♥ = 6-9 exactly 3 cards support
2♠ = 10-11 with exactly 3 cards support
3NT = 12-15 with exactly 3 cards support

Do you know how the bidding continues after these sequences?


PS: Since you are loosing the natural 2♥ bid, I guess that 1NT response is one-round forcing
PSS: I guess that 2♣/♦ responses are either natural or may have a 3cards fit, but 16+ hcp

[mw64ahw]

giorgis_di, on 2024-January-30, 03:23, said:

Hello,

I cannot recall where I saw such a development, but in a very brief terms these are the responses after 1 Major opening:

2♥ = 6-9 exactly 3 cards support
2♠ = 10-11 with exactly 3 cards support
3NT = 12-15 with exactly 3 cards support

Do you know how the bidding continues after these sequences?


PS: Since you are loosing the natural 2♥ bid, I guess that 1NT response is one-round forcing
PSS: I guess that 2♣/♦ responses are either natural or may have a 3cards fit, but 16+ hcp

Do you have to loose the natural 2♥ bid over 1♠?
I play 1♠-2♥ as a constructive raise, a limiit+ 3-card raise or game invitational with 5+♥
Opener breaks the transfer with 13+hcp and 6.5 modified losers which should be enough for 3♥ when responder has a minimum constructive raise
1♠-2♠ is then pre-emptive
1♠-2♥-2NT is then the default response when breaking the transfer
You can define responses for other bids, for example
1♠-2♥
...3♦ is then 5♠3+♥
........3♥ maximum constructive raise
........3♠ minimum constructive raise
or responder can place the contract or try for slam

[DavidKok]

Having a good raise structure over the 1M openings is a very important aspect of any bidding system, and I'd recommend shopping around to find one that suits you. I'm not familiar with the one you propose but it seems really poor to me, as does the one suggested by mw64ahw.

Some relatively standard structures include:

• 2M shows 6-9, 3M shows 10-11, 2NT shows 12+ and 4+ support, 2/1 then a raise shows 12+ and 3-card support, 4M shows a weak hand with 5-card support.
  
• 1NT-then-2M shows 5-7, 2M shows 8-11, stronger hands bid 2/1 or 2NT as above.
  
• 2M shows 6-9, 1NT-then-3M shows 10-11, stronger hands bid 2/1 or 2NT as above.
  
• Same as above, but split out the 4-card 6-9 and 10-11 raises using Bergen raises.

Personally I play something else, but it is not internationally popular. Many more structures exist. I would personally not give up the 1♠-2♥ auction, and I would also try to avoid jumping to 3NT with a strong hand and not much known about side suits, shape or slam suitability.

[giorgis_di]

DavidKok, on 2024-January-30, 05:43, said:

Having a good raise structure over the 1M openings is a very important aspect of any bidding system, and I'd recommend shopping around to find one that suits you. I'm not familiar with the one you propose but it seems really poor to me, as does the one suggested by mw64ahw.

Some relatively standard structures include:

• 2M shows 6-9, 3M shows 10-11, 2NT shows 12+ and 4+ support, 2/1 then a raise shows 12+ and 3-card support, 4M shows a weak hand with 5-card support.
  
• 1NT-then-2M shows 5-7, 2M shows 8-11, stronger hands bid 2/1 or 2NT as above.
  
• 2M shows 6-9, 1NT-then-3M shows 10-11, stronger hands bid 2/1 or 2NT as above.
  
• Same as above, but split out the 4-card 6-9 and 10-11 raises using Bergen raises.

Personally I play something else, but it is not internationally popular. Many more structures exist. I would personally not give up the 1♠-2♥ auction, and I would also try to avoid jumping to 3NT with a strong hand and not much known about side suits, shape or slam suitability.

I am not talking about 4+ cards support -- I use other conventions for that.

Also, it's not mine approach, I think that I saw in in Klukowski's CC, but I cannot find it nor I can find some notes with continuations

Finally, I am not interested in alternative options. I just asked whether someone has heard of these to conventions and if yes, he/she has notes on pontential continuations

[giorgis_di]

mw64ahw, on 2024-January-30, 04:01, said:

Do you have to loose the natural 2♥ bid over 1♠?
I play 1♠-2♥ as a constructive raise, a limiit+ 3-card raise or game invitational with 5+♥
Opener breaks the transfer with 13+hcp and 6.5 modified losers which should be enough for 3♥ when responder has a minimum constructive raise
1♠-2♠ is then pre-emptive
1♠-2♥-2NT is then the default response when breaking the transfer
You can define responses for other bids, for example
1♠-2♥
...3♦ is then 5♠3+♥
........3♥ maximum constructive raise
........3♠ minimum constructive raise
or responder can place the contract or try for slam

Yes, I have to...

1♠ - 2♥ = 6-9p with 3c fit in spades, whereas 2♠ = 10-11p with 3c fit in spades, as well

[mw64ahw]

giorgis_di, on 2024-January-30, 07:12, said:

Yes, I have to...

1♠ - 2♥ = 6-9p with 3c fit in spades, whereas 2♠ = 10-11p with 3c fit in spades, as well

The above structure puts both through 2♥, so
1♠-2♥-2♠
.... Pass ~6-9
.... 2NT 5♥ GI
.....3♣ 5+♥ GF
.... 3♦ 3♠ ~11-12+
.... 3♥ 6+♥ GI
.... 3♠ 3♠ ~10-11
etc.

[giorgis_di]

mw64ahw, on 2024-January-30, 07:27, said:

The above structure puts both through 2♥, so
1♠-2♥-2♠
.... 2NT 5♥ GI
.....3♣ 5+♥ GF
.... 3♦ ~11-12+
.... 3♥ 6+♥ GI
.... 3♠ ~10-11
etc.

I dont see the point of showing ♥ at the 3-level or even as 2NT. Personally, even thought i havent tried it, I prefer the following sequence:

1♠ - 1NT*
2♣/♦ ** - 2♥ =10+p with 5+ cards in hearts

* One round forcing
** 3+ cards on the minor

[mw64ahw]

giorgis_di, on 2024-January-30, 07:37, said:

I dont see the point of showing ♥ at the 3-level or even as 2NT. Personally, even thought i havent tried it, I prefer the following sequence:

1♠ - 1NT*
2♣/♦ ** - 2♥ =10+p with 5+ cards in hearts

* One round forcing
** 3+ cards on the minor

In the original Standard American I learnt from Goren
1♠-2♥ GI 5+♥
1♠ 3♠ 4♠ GI
1♠-1NT-2X-2♠ weak
1♠-1NT-3♠ 3♠ limit raise
1♠-4♠ pre-emptive or 4+♠ 10-12 with singleton
but I have progressed through various iterations and use different approaches with different partners

Also what do you do when weak with ♥ and look to play in 2♥

[DavidKok]

giorgis_di, on 2024-January-30, 07:09, said:

I am not talking about 4+ cards support -- I use other conventions for that.

Also, it's not mine approach, I think that I saw in in Klukowski's CC, but I cannot find it nor I can find some notes with continuations

Finally, I am not interested in alternative options. I just asked whether someone has heard of these to conventions and if yes, he/she has notes on pontential continuations

Sorry, then I misunderstood the purpose of your question. I am not familiar with these methods.

[giorgis_di]

mw64ahw, on 2024-January-30, 07:45, said:

In the original Standard American I learnt from Goren
1♠-2♥ GI 5+♥
1♠ 3♠ 4♠ GI
1♠-1NT-2X-2♠ weak
1♠-1NT-3♠ 3♠ limit raise
1♠-4♠ pre-emptive or 4+♠ 10-12 with singleton
but I have progressed through various iterations and use different approaches with different partners

Also what do you do when weak with ♥ and look to play in 2♥

That's a good question... I don't know to be honest. One way is to bid 3♥ but it may be dangerous especially in vul vs non-vul posiitons. Alternative, one may bid again 1NT and rebid 2♠ (promising at most of 2c in ♠

That's why I am asking if someone has notes on these "conventions"

[mw64ahw]

giorgis_di, on 2024-January-30, 08:37, said:

That's a good question... I don't know to be honest. One way is to bid 3♥ but it may be dangerous especially in vul vs non-vul posiitons. Alternative, one may bid again 1NT and rebid 2♠ (promising at most of 2c in ♠

That's why I am asking if someone has notes on these "conventions"

There are a variety of approaches to find the ♥ fit see Bart/Lisa to name two

In a previous post transfers over 1♠ were discussed on this site and I wrote it up further on 2. Transfers over 1!S-1NT (bridgewinners.com) if it is of any ineterest. This also finds the weak ♥ fit