[Valardent]

Imps all red, West dealer (pbbly opens 1♣) :

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How would you bid these ?

What difference if we add in West hand ♣J, or ♠J, or ♥10 ?

If you play a system where responder is the relayer, do you have some way to know about jacks (/10’s) ?

See also https://bridgewinner...h-grand-if-any/

[pescetom]

Our Italian 2/1 system would probably lead to 6♥ at IMPs.
Something like:
1♣- 1♦
1♥ - 2♦ (art GF)
3♣ - 3♥
4♣ (CTL) - 4♦ (CTL)
4NT (even KC) - 6♥
P

Valardent, on 2023-December-15, 10:49, said:

What difference if we add in West hand ♣J, or ♠J, or ♥10 ?

With ♣J we would have opened 2♣ and then control-bid in clubs, leading to 7♣.
2♣ - 2♦ (K+)
3♣ (IMP) - 3♦ (CTL)
3♠ (CTL, !♥) - 3NT(CTL♠)
4♣ (CTL) - 4♥ (CTL)
4NT (even KC) - 5♣ (CTL)
5♦ (CTL) - 5♥ (CTL)
6♣ (♣Q, !♠), 7♣
P

A major Jack instead would have been comforting but not changed things (in the actual auction, both sides are aware that the hearts fit is Moysian and any grand is at risk).

[Cyberyeti]

I suspect our auction would lead to 6♥, if W had ♣J hence he thought his suit was solid, we might reach 7♣/7N, don't think we're reaching 7M with the extra cards in the majors.

[mw64ahw]

My auction is likely to go
1♣-1♠ GI
3♥ 6♣4♥ w. extras - 6NT
So no grand for me
I could make a case for trying for the ♥ slam via 4NT showing an odd number of keycards and ♠ control and then perhaps converting to 6NT

[sfi]

Do we want to be in a grand? It looks in danger of losing a trump trick no matter where you play, and 7NT mostly needs clubs 3-3.

In any case, Polish Club got us inelegantly to 6NT:

1♣ (multi) - 2♦ (natural FG)
3♣ (15+ nat) - 3♠
3NT - 6NT

At least we hopefully talked them out of the diamond lead.

[Cyberyeti]

sfi, on 2023-December-15, 15:56, said:

Do we want to be in a grand? It looks in danger of losing a trump trick no matter where you play, and 7NT mostly needs clubs 3-3.

I think the point is that you don't, but with the addition of ♣J or ♥10 or ♠J you do

[nullve]

pescetom, on 2023-December-15, 11:00, said:

With ♣J we would have opened 2♣

Really?

[pescetom]

nullve, on 2023-December-16, 11:17, said:

Really?

Perhaps
Depends partly upon the 2♣ agreement which varies between partners.
It does have the virtue that I would immediately learn about a decent 3-5 spades fit.

[Gilithin]

sfi, on 2023-December-15, 15:56, said:

Do we want to be in a grand? It looks in danger of losing a trump trick no matter where you play, and 7NT mostly needs clubs 3-3.

In any case, Polish Club got us inelegantly to 6NT:

1♣ (multi) - 2♦ (natural FG)
3♣ (15+ nat) - 3♠
3NT - 6NT

At least we hopefully talked them out of the diamond lead.

What would 4♥ over 3NT be in standard Polish Club? It seems to me there is still a fair bit of space over 3NT for some science. Most of the Strong and Mixed Club systems I considered for this hand end up in 6♣, since that tends to looks like the safest slam and this is IMPs. That 2♦ response really clogs up this auction though; I feel like there should be a better way for hands like this. I thought Opener actually showed a 4 card major here in preference to clarifying the hand type but as I do not personally play the system, maybe I have misunderstood the literature: 1C - 2D -- 2H - 2S -- 3C does feel like a much smoother auction though. In any case, with the ♣J I feel the West hand should be upgraded to 18, possibly giving a completely different auction.