BBO Discussion Forums: 3154 Awkward - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

3154 Awkward

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,311
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Currently in New Zealand
  • Interests:Bridge, boogie boarding, hiking

Posted 2021-June-11, 03:21



As if this hand isn't difficult enough already, you are playing with a pickup partner with time for only minimal discussion before the game.

5 card majors, 12-14 nt, 4C gerber, 04,1,2,3 (4nt ace ask if you have gone past 4C)
2C strong, 2D 0-6, all other bids positive.

What is your plan? Choose your opening bid and then check below.

Spoiler

Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
0

#2 User is offline   shyams 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,379
  • Joined: 2009-August-02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dubai, UAE

Posted 2021-June-11, 03:47

I open 1

The follow-up: 3. I guess I am very basic; after deciding on my 3 rebid, I thought about both 2NT and (a weird) 2. I don't like either enough to overturn my first choice of 3
2

#3 User is offline   pilowsky 

  • pilowsky
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,360
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Writing, Learning, History, Politics

Posted 2021-June-11, 04:34

2NT
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
0

#4 User is offline   paulg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,795
  • Joined: 2003-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottish Borders

Posted 2021-June-11, 05:33

My plan is to open 1 and rebid 3 over a 1M response. I don't like making a jump rebid when only 54 but this hand is easily strong enough to cope.
The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
0

#5 User is offline   nullve 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,822
  • Joined: 2014-April-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway
  • Interests:partscores

Posted 2021-June-11, 05:43

A perfect hand for 1-1M/N; 3.
0

#6 User is online   AL78 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 908
  • Joined: 2019-October-13

Posted 2021-June-11, 06:03

I go with the majority opening 1 followed by 3 if partner bids a major.
0

#7 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 258
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-June-11, 06:27

After the following responses to 1

1-3NT in case responder is xxxx KQxx xx xxxx & passes 3. Partner can use Gerber if max.
1-is it a 4/5+ suit?.
1NT-3
0

#8 User is offline   sfi 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,116
  • Joined: 2009-May-18
  • Location:Oz

Posted 2021-June-11, 07:13

Yeah, 3C. Anything else is just kind of odd.
0

#9 User is online   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,237
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-June-11, 07:14

1D then 3C.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#10 User is offline   LBengtsson 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 446
  • Joined: 2017-August-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-June-11, 08:48

3154 awkward, yes jillybean! as I said a few posts back, especially if 3154 with 5m4m. it would be good to have 1 - 1M/1NT - 2 as forcing here to save space but we all know it aint. (not for me.) so, I agree with many others that only option is 1 - 1 -3
0

#11 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,462
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2021-June-11, 09:07

1D opening.

If partner bids 1H I now vid 3C, surely forcing to game.

If partner, over 3C, rebids 3H I bid 3NT. That should be clear enough. Possibly it would be better to bid 3S over 3H in case it is better to play 3NT from his side but I am not so sure that this would be understood.
If, over my 3C, partner bids 3D, I bid 3S. This should be clear enough. Or so I hope.

there are other possibilities, for example partner might raise 3C to 4C. So I bid 4S.

The overall plan is: If partner responds then I force to game. I show my second suit, then I show I have spade values. Then it's up to pard, or at least largely up to pard.

It's a pick-up pard. If he doesn't think my 3C rebid over 1H is a game force I can't help that.
Ken
1

#12 User is online   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,621
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2021-June-11, 09:14

anything but 1D then 3C over any 1-level response is overthinking the hand. Kenberg (welcome back...I don’t think I’ve seen your voice of reason for a long time) nailed it
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#13 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,311
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Currently in New Zealand
  • Interests:Bridge, boogie boarding, hiking

Posted 2021-June-11, 09:37



South leads a spade and never gets back in. Needless to say my auction was nothing like this but started 1 1 4 Gerber

Welcome back Kenberg :)
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
0

#14 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,311
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Currently in New Zealand
  • Interests:Bridge, boogie boarding, hiking

Posted 2021-June-11, 09:50

View Postkenberg, on 2021-June-11, 09:07, said:


If partner, over 3C, rebids 3H I bid 3NT. That should be clear enough. Possibly it would be better to bid 3S over 3H in case it is better to play 3NT from his side but I am not so sure that this would be understood.


1 1 3 3 3 - how does this work?
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
0

#15 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 258
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-June-11, 10:00

View Postjillybean, on 2021-June-11, 09:50, said:

1 1 3 3 3 - how does this work?

1-1-3NT is all that is needed given East's 3154 & strength. Why provide information that could be useful to the opponents?

Max with 7+ & self-sustaining suit West takes it to 4 Kickback
Max uses Gerber/Quantitative
0

#16 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,396
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-June-11, 10:09

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-June-11, 10:00, said:

1-1-3NT is all that is needed given East's 3154 & strength. Why provide information that could be useful to the opponents?



Because 1-1-3N means something else to 90% of people including a much longer diamond suit and less HCP
1

#17 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,001
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, Canada

Posted 2021-June-11, 10:11

1-1; 3NT shows something like AQx x AKJTxx Axx - a hand that can make 3NT by running the diamonds, assuming you have something useful. However, if you're playing it the way you plan, doesn't KQxxxx and out bid 4, hoping for 2? or does 3NT guarantee a singleton because you didn't open on the NT ladder - in which case, does west bid 4 "my hand is useless in NT, maybe this makes losing 2 or 3 trump tricks"?

Of course, on this hand the hearts are 5=1 and the diamonds are 3=3. If the red suits were swapped, 3NT would look a lot sillier compared to 4...

1-1; 3 like everyone else. Partner has a good idea what we have and what we are looking for in their hand.

Note, those who play WJS m-M have a pretty textbook 1-2 here "no interest in game unless you're strong *and* can use my hearts, because I have nothing else." Again, bad on the 3=3 diamond break, but still.

I'm actually more interested in 1-1. 3 takes up a lot of room potentially needed to find the 5-3 spade fit, but I don't see anything else working.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#18 User is online   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,237
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-June-11, 10:12

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-June-11, 10:00, said:

1-1-3NT is all that is needed given East's 3154 & strength. Why provide information that could be useful to the opponents?

Max with 7+ & self-sustaining suit West takes it to 4 Kickback
Max uses Gerber/Quantitative


Where I learned to play the 3N in this sequence is a trick-showing bid not particularly a strength-showing bid. In fact, bidding 3N with this particular hand would be a good way to end up playing 6D in a 5-1 fit as the bid to many (most?) would mean a self-sustaining diamond suit.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#19 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,462
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2021-June-11, 10:22

View Postjillybean, on 2021-June-11, 09:50, said:

1 1 3 3 3 - how does this work?


The problem is that I don't know. Might it be taken to show a hand where the majors are AKx in hearts and a stiff spade?
Playing with a pick-up, and for that matter playing with a non-pick-up, I think it is best if bids show values in the bid suit unless there is some clear understanding to the contrary.So 3S shows spades. Very sensible.
But bidding 3NT over 3H must also be something in spades and a lack of enthusiasm for hearts, and that's what I have.
If 3S would have worked better I then say mean culpa and we go on to the next hand.
Not as dramatic as one of my favorite bridge stories:
After a bad result and an ongoing lecture from the male side of the table the female side promised to kill herself tomorrow but suggested that for now they go on to the next hand.
Ken
2

#20 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,915
  • Joined: 2003-May-14

Posted 2021-June-11, 11:49

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-June-11, 10:00, said:

1-1-3NT is all that is needed given East's 3154 & strength. Why provide information that could be useful to the opponents?

Because 1H is unlimited and we can have slam. 3nt makes finding club slams a lot harder and also completely mis-describes hand to partner (as others said, long running diamonds + stoppers is the assumption). This will cause problems a lot more often than the minor information leakage will be fatal to 3nt.
0

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users