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Competitive Bidding

#1 User is offline   relpar 

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Posted 2021-February-11, 09:53

An interesting bidding sequence creating some discussion. First in hand your LHO opens, playing 2/1, opens 1. Your partner bids 2, (Michaels). Your RHO bids 3.
What does Double from you mean in this sequence?
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#2 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-February-11, 10:09

This depends on agreement. If partner has shown 5-5 in the majors you typically don't want to sit and defend 3. Without prior discussion I don't think any particular meaning stands out, probably an invitational raise in one of the two major suits (ambiguous). For me it would show an invitational raise of hearts.
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#3 User is offline   relpar 

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Posted 2021-February-11, 11:04

So with 5, A32, 8543, KQ865, non-vul against vul what are you going to do? Pass?
I believe my partner has told me what he has. If I want to go to game and am happy in either or I bid 4. If I want to play in 3 of a major I bid it. Why cannot I make a penalty double of 3?
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#4 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2021-February-11, 11:17

Constructive values. Double is one of the view ways you have of showing strength in a sequence like this. Almost every other available call can be made purely on shape so you need one way of shifting to a constructive auction. Double is typically the call used for this purpose.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#5 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-February-11, 12:34

View Postrelpar, on 2021-February-11, 11:04, said:

So with 5, A32, 8543, KQ865, non-vul against vul what are you going to do? Pass?
I believe my partner has told me what he has. If I want to go to game and am happy in either or I bid 4. If I want to play in 3 of a major I bid it. Why cannot I make a penalty double of 3?

Hands that are not certain about 3 or 4 are more common than penalty doubles in clubs. But if you prefer penalty then you can make that agreement.

View PostZelandakh, on 2021-February-11, 11:17, said:

Constructive values. Double is one of the view ways you have of showing strength in a sequence like this. Almost every other available call can be made purely on shape so you need one way of shifting to a constructive auction. Double is typically the call used for this purpose.

If uninterrupted all of 2, 2NT, 3 and 3 would show values for me, so I would like to treat a double as a 'stolen bid' double of 3 and 3 the same as when not disturbed. But without these agreements a double needs to be more ambiguous (in particular, not tied to one of the two suits).
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#6 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2021-February-11, 15:48

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-February-11, 12:34, said:

Hands that are not certain about 3 or 4 are more common than penalty doubles in clubs. But if you prefer penalty then you can make that agreement.


If uninterrupted all of 2, 2NT, 3 and 3 would show values for me, so I would like to treat a double as a 'stolen bid' double of 3 and 3 the same as when not disturbed. But without these agreements a double needs to be more ambiguous (in particular, not tied to one of the two suits).

If you play X as penalty then 3 probably becomes the cheap value call; problem then comes if they open .

By default in an uninterrupted auction I would see 2 as asking the overcaller to bid their better major but obviously you can play it differently if you want. All of the other calls you mention force the auction to the 3 level. Yes, some of those calls will also be constructive, for example 2NT = ask; 3 = good raise ; 3 good raise . But here there is a great deal of flexibility as to how to organise hands so the precise structure is less important than actually having some useful agreement.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#7 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2021-February-11, 16:23

Penalty.
- Partner has described his shape accurately. We don't need double to elicit his shape, and we can't expect him to reopen with a double in case we have a trap pass because he told his story already.
- If we have a game try, we can bid 3. So maybe (1)-2-(3)-x should be a game try. But I don't really believe in game try doubles. If you have a game try, just bid game. Besides, if we play split-range Michaels, partner will pass 3M with a minimum and raise with a maximum so in that style we arguably don't even need a game try.

Opps bid 3 voluntarily and they have fit, so it may seem unlikely that we have a hand for penalty double. Penalty doubles are more for situations in which opps are under pressure to bid at an uncomfortable level and could be in a 6-0 fit or so. But here, although they do have a fit, clubs could easily break 5-0. Besides, we don't have to worry that our penalty double gives the layout away since partner's 2 bid already told them most of what they need to know.

If partner had shown six cards with a weak jump overcall, everyone would agree that it is penalty. Now, partner has shown ten cards, and the more accurate partner has described his hand, the stronger the case for a penalty double.

I am frankly surprised that this isn't unanimous. But OK, there's no such thing as a unanimous opinion in bridge :)
Can't have a baby if you do it contraclockwise! --- Jlall
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