[maris oren]

what is south's bid?

---

[FelicityR]

2♣ always. Pass or 1NT don't even enter the equation.

[Cyberyeti]

 FelicityR, on 2020-April-22, 09:04, said:

2♣ always. Pass or 1NT don't even enter the equation.

For us, x shows 4 clubs, 2♣ shows 5 so we double

If playing a weak NT I might have opened one

[neilkaz]

2♣ for me.

[pescetom]

I'm with CY, double shows this hand.
Although some others here play that it shows a hand that would have bid 2NT with a stop in opponent's suit.

[johnu]

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-22, 11:29, said:

For us, x shows 4 clubs, 2♣ shows 5 so we double

If playing a weak NT I might have opened one

In the US and some other parts of the world, it is standard tournament bridge that double shows 3 card heart support.

[mycroft]

I think that pass should enter the equation, too, especially if next round's heart bid denies 3 (from failure to support double now).

'minimum, balanced, no spade stopper' - okay, I'm 5=4 in the minors, but is that really worth mentioning with this random 13-count that actually would hope to play in hearts?

And absolutely, playing a K/S style weak NT, this is a weak NT. Partner's going to expect more than this for 1♦.

[Cyberyeti]

 johnu, on 2020-April-22, 14:08, said:

In the US and some other parts of the world, it is standard tournament bridge that double shows 3 card heart support.

Yup, that's why I said FOR US, some people play that here, but I think it's less common in weak NT land

[Tramticket]

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-22, 14:39, said:

Yup, that's why I said FOR US, some people play that here, but I think it's less common in weak NT land

I am no fan of Support Doubles in the context of a weak NT system. But that is because we use Double to show the strong NT type hand. Distinguishing four and five-card club holdings is far less important in my opinion.

[Cyberyeti]

 Tramticket, on 2020-April-23, 03:16, said:

I am no fan of Support Doubles in the context of a weak NT system. But that is because we use Double to show the strong NT type hand. Distinguishing four and five-card club holdings is far less important in my opinion.

With my regular partner, we don't actually play that often, so saving effort in remembering system via blanket agreements is useful, we just play this for all the "3 suits bid" auctions and it's much more valuable where you would have to bid the suit at the 3 level. The knowledge when partner has 3 of them that you have 5 is important.

[bluenikki]

 maris oren, on 2020-April-22, 07:29, said:

what is south's bid?

---

balanced minimum opener passes (or raises) at 2nd turn unless forced.

Do you believe this is unbalanced?

[bluenikki]

 mycroft, on 2020-April-22, 14:30, said:

I think that pass should enter the equation, too, especially if next round's heart bid denies 3 (from failure to support double now).

'minimum, balanced, no spade stopper' - okay, I'm 5=4 in the minors, but is that really worth mentioning with this random 13-count that actually would hope to play in hearts?

And absolutely, playing a K/S style weak NT, this is a weak NT. Partner's going to expect more than this for 1♦.

this is 11.8 CCCC count. 11.6 without the 9s. Kaplan's point count.

So it is too weak for a K-S opening.

CCCC hates two honors doubleton: the ♥ J only counted .45 .

[johnu]

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-22, 14:39, said:

Yup, that's why I said FOR US, some people play that here, but I think it's less common in weak NT land

Nice attempt at humor. Better luck next time

[ibm386]

i prefer double = i'not 11 po, may be we play 3nt and
after 2h i say pass.

[Cyberyeti]

 johnu, on 2020-April-23, 13:47, said:

Nice attempt at humor. Better luck next time

Err - there was no humour in this, support doubles are played by VERY few pairs playing a weak NT in the UK, the pairs that play them here tend to be playing 14-16/15-17.

[johnu]

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-23, 15:07, said:

Err - there was no humour in this, support doubles are played by VERY few pairs playing a weak NT in the UK, the pairs that play them here tend to be playing 14-16/15-17.

I would throw you a lifesaver but I'm out of them. Look in the mail for an Altoid.

[aawk]

If it is for IMP play I would pass. If it is for MP play 2♣ is a alternative.

dbl would show 3 card h (support dbl)
1nt minimum with good ♠ stopper
2♣ 5-5 non forcing
2♦ 6+ card non forcing
2♥ 4 card fit non forcing
2♠ game forcing
2nt invite 16-17 good ♠ stopper
3♣ 5-5 game forcing
3♦ 6+ card game forcing (or if agreed barrage 7+ card)
3♥ invite 4 card
3♠/4♣ splinter (or if agreed a cue) 4+ card ♥
3nt to play 18+ good ♠ stopper
4♦ cue 4+ card ♥
4♥ to play
4♠/5♣ exclusion BLW 4+ card ♥
4nt RKC 4+ card ♥

[Cyberyeti]

 johnu, on 2020-April-23, 18:16, said:

I would throw you a lifesaver but I'm out of them. Look in the mail for an Altoid.

Please stop patronising somebody who actually knows what's played in his own part of the world.

I actually had to look up what an Altoid was, they're pretty much unknown here despite being invented here.

[miamijd]

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-24, 03:26, said:

Please stop patronising somebody who actually knows what's played in his own part of the world.

I actually had to look up what an Altoid was, they're pretty much unknown here despite being invented here.

I think (I hope) he was referring to your making an accidental pun. You said FOR US. But the first time I read that, I thought you meant "For the USA."

Keep well.

Mike

[miamijd]

 bluenikki, on 2020-April-23, 13:37, said:

balanced minimum opener passes (or raises) at 2nd turn unless forced.

Do you believe this is unbalanced?

Of course it is. You have 9 cards in the minors, and you have to show partner that now, so that he can make an intelligent decision at his next turn. If you pass, West is likely to raise to 2S. Now what is your partner supposed to do with:

xxx
Qxxxx
KQx
xx

or

xxx
Axxx
xx
Kxxx

He is stuck guessing, and if I'm your partner, I'm probably just going to pass unless I'm NV at MPs, and maybe even then. You don't want me to pass; you want me to bid 3m. It might make; we might push them to 3S; and even if we go set, at MPs, we'll likely go set less than -110. You have to show your minor holdings immediately, so that partner has an easy 3D on hand 1 or 3c on hand 2.

Cheers,
mike