[pilowsky]

The Boy scouts in America are simultaneously putting an end to racism and coronavirus.
Some in Florida think it's all political.

Quote

Fans of the Brooksville Raid reenactment said they were disappointed that the 2021 event was being canceled, but understood the need for coronavirus safety precautions, and said that they hoped it would return in 2022. Some reenactment fans, however, questioned whether the event was actually being canceled due to the racial unrest throughout the country since George Floyd's death in the middle of May.

'Let's be honest, this is not about corona,' one Facebook user wrote.

'Is this also due to fear of it being a racist event? I am truly saddened at the cancel culture that's now encroached to our county!!' another Facebook user wrote.

'The virus is just an excuse, to stop them, tell the truth, it's all about the racism tensions,' a Facebook user wrote.

'This is all political. While you're at it the mural in Brooksville should be taken down too. Bunch of weak people here,' wrote another Facebook user.

The Brooksville Raid organizers responded to the last poster, stating that they did not cancel the event, reiterating that the Boy Scout council opted not to renew the contract and that 'We were currently planning for 2021 when this happened.'

Although raid reenactment fans said that racial unrest and threats of violence against reenactments have been a problem in the last few years, they do believe that the event's stated 'profitability' claim is the actual reason behind the 2021 cancellation.

In the past, the raid had been viewed as a tourism booster, as well as a reasonably-priced family-oriented event – admission was $10 per adult and $5 for under 12s and free for children under 5. More than a thousand visitors traveling from across the state to attend it.

[shyams]

Why does the BBC report the Govt. spin as if it were fact? The new article by Nick Triggle (link) is merely parroting the party line without questioning a single statistic or hypothesis.

For example,

1. The much-touted herd immunity rate was somewhere around 65% of the population. England has already vaccinated 80% of all adults (which, probably is ~65% of the population). This number will rise by a further 2%-4% by June 21st. In effect, the herd immunity levels may have been reached -- so why is BBC not challenging the UK Govt on this point.

2. The original objective of the lockdown was "Protect the NHS". There is absolutely no indication that the infections are resulting in actual increase in ICU patients or in deaths or in any way stressing the NHS. If the very foundation of the lockdown no longer exists, why can't the BBC challenge the UK Govt about their rationale for deferring the normalcy date?

The BBC may not be in a position to assess if the deferral is merited or not. However, I find it really difficult to believe that the BBC has (over the past two weeks) only pushed the Govt's assessment of how a delay is important -- without giving any consideration to counter facts or counter arguments or robust challenges.

Annoying!

[johnu]

 Winstonm, on 2021-June-13, 12:51, said:

I'm coming around on your idea about secession - and after the next civil war there will be no reconstruction - only hangings for treason.

There is absolutely no need for a civil war. Once people come to their senses and acknowledge that letting the confederate states back into the union was a terrible mistake, it will be easy to pass a constitutional amendment allowing red counties to secede and join the New Confederacy.

After a secession amendment is passed, there would be a county by county vote on whether to secede. Counties voting to secede by 50.000+% would be free to create whatever kind of national government they want, and negotiate with Blue USA over trade and national security issues.

After the formation of the New Confederacy, counties could switch countries by holding an election and if 55% want to switch, they can after a 20 year probation period. Counties that elected people like Gohmert, Gaetz, Taylor Green, Jordan, Cruz, Cotton, Bachmann, McConnell, etc would need 60% to switch and have a 50 year probation.

[Winstonm]

 johnu, on 2021-June-14, 16:23, said:

There is absolutely no need for a civil war. Once people come to their senses and acknowledge that letting the confederate states back into the union was a terrible mistake, it will be easy to pass a constitutional amendment allowing red counties to secede and join the New Confederacy.

After a secession amendment is passed, there would be a county by county vote on whether to secede. Counties voting to secede by 50.000+% would be free to create whatever kind of national government they want, and negotiate with Blue USA over trade and national security issues.

After the formation of the New Confederacy, counties could switch countries by holding an election and if 55% want to switch, they can after a 20 year probation period. Counties that elected people like Gohmert, Gaetz, Taylor Green, Jordan, Cruz, Cotton, Bachmann, McConnell, etc would need 60% to switch and have a 50 year probation.

And after the new confederacy is established we invade and pass new versions of Jim Crow laws that make rebels second class citizens without voting rights .

[cherdano]

 shyams, on 2021-June-14, 15:36, said:

Why does the BBC report the Govt. spin as if it were fact? The new article by Nick Triggle (link) is merely parroting the party line without questioning a single statistic or hypothesis.

For example,

1. The much-touted herd immunity rate was somewhere around 65% of the population. England has already vaccinated 80% of all adults (which, probably is ~65% of the population). This number will rise by a further 2%-4% by June 21st. In effect, the herd immunity levels may have been reached -- so why is BBC not challenging the UK Govt on this point.

2. The original objective of the lockdown was "Protect the NHS". There is absolutely no indication that the infections are resulting in actual increase in ICU patients or in deaths or in any way stressing the NHS. If the very foundation of the lockdown no longer exists, why can't the BBC challenge the UK Govt about their rationale for deferring the normalcy date?

The BBC may not be in a position to assess if the deferral is merited or not. However, I find it really difficult to believe that the BBC has (over the past two weeks) only pushed the Govt's assessment of how a delay is important -- without giving any consideration to counter facts or counter arguments or robust challenges.

Annoying!

I am no fan of Nick Triggle, as is documented elsewhere in this thread. But this article seems fine.

0. The information given is not based on the government's "party line", but on the modelling done by independent scientists part of SAGE. I think this distinction is important. It's also roughly in line with what others have predicted based on simple extrapolations or more sophisticated models.
For the near future, it's really simple: cases are now growing fast, with a doubling time of 10-14 days. Hospitalizations are still following that growth - roughly, they are 4-5% of cases 10 days before.

Now to respond to your specific points:
1. Only 57% of adults have had both shots, one dose is less effective against delta, and the higher transmissibilty delta unfortunately raises the herd immunity threshold. Also, vaccinating by age means you effectively need a higher threshold, as most 20 year olds are more likely to hang out with other 20 year olds than with 70 year olds.

2. As I said, cases are rising fast, hospitalizations are starting to follow. The NHS could "cope" with a similar wave as in January, but it would mean it had to stop doing a lot of other things again. Not sure we really want to increase the NHS backlog.

Today's decision was really inevitable.

[johnu]

 Winstonm, on 2021-June-14, 16:56, said:

And after the new confederacy is established we invade and pass new versions of Jim Crow laws that make rebels second class citizens without voting rights .

Build that wall!!! Build that wall!!! Republicans will pay for the wall!!!

[hrothgar]

 shyams, on 2021-June-14, 15:36, said:

Why does the BBC report the Govt. spin as if it were fact? The new article by Nick Triggle (link) is merely parroting the party line without questioning a single statistic or hypothesis.

For example,

1. The much-touted herd immunity rate was somewhere around 65% of the population. England has already vaccinated 80% of all adults (which, probably is ~65% of the population). This number will rise by a further 2%-4% by June 21st. In effect, the herd immunity levels may have been reached -- so why is BBC not challenging the UK Govt on this point.

2. The original objective of the lockdown was "Protect the NHS". There is absolutely no indication that the infections are resulting in actual increase in ICU patients or in deaths or in any way stressing the NHS. If the very foundation of the lockdown no longer exists, why can't the BBC challenge the UK Govt about their rationale for deferring the normalcy date?

The BBC may not be in a position to assess if the deferral is merited or not. However, I find it really difficult to believe that the BBC has (over the past two weeks) only pushed the Govt's assessment of how a delay is important -- without giving any consideration to counter facts or counter arguments or robust challenges.

Annoying!

Have you bothered to do even the slightest amount of reading about the Delta variant before posting this nonsense? (You know, the variant that is now responsible for 90% of all new cases in the UK)

Annoying!

[shyams]

 hrothgar, on 2021-June-14, 22:03, said:

Have you bothered to do even the slightest amount of reading about the Delta variant before posting this nonsense? (You know, the variant that is now responsible for 90% of all new cases in the UK)

Annoying!

Are you assuming that I did not? Simply to take inane potshots when the opportunity arises? Go ahead.

PS: Is it because you Americans chose a terrible President to replace the Clown President and I had the temerity to call him out as bad?

[cherdano]

 shyams, on 2021-June-15, 01:34, said:

PS: Is it because you Americans chose a terrible President to replace the Clown President and I had the temerity to call him out as bad?

No.

[hrothgar]

 shyams, on 2021-June-15, 01:34, said:

Are you assuming that I did not?

Yes

Because the alternative is that you're too stupid to read a short article and draw obvious conclusions.

1. The Delta variant is at least 30% more communicable that early variants (perhaps twice as much so)
2. A single jab of two dose vaccines offers enormously less protection against Delta
3. Delta makes up 90% of the new infections in the UK

And you need to ask why earlier estimates about herd immunity levels no longer seem to carry as much weight?

OK fine.
You have done your reading.

You're just an idiot.

[thepossum]

Wondering when the world will wake up after a year and half of destruction of life, mass profits to testing corporations, PPE corporations, vaccine corporations, drug treatment corporations, other treatment corporations, research corporations,increased surveillance over our lives, big profits to all techs especially those in surveillance and related technologies

People still falling for technofascistic BS

Oops sorry forgot all the media fascism too. Possibly the worst of the lot

But hey. We are getting so many learnings from this devastation of so many people's lives maybe we will do better next time

[hrothgar]

 thepossum, on 2021-June-15, 04:42, said:

Wondering when the world will wake up after a year and half of destruction of life, mass profits to testing corporations, PPE corporations, vaccine corporations, increased surveillance over our lives, big profits to all techs especially those in surveillance and related technologies

The official daily COVID death count in India is around 4K per day
Its widely believed that these estimates are off by an order of magnitude (and not in a good way)

That same delta variant is now widespread in the UK and starting to spread in the US.

Yes, the world needs to wake up, but attacking organized responses to the virus doesn't seem particularly helpful

What's your suggestion about what needs to be done differently?

[thepossum]

I'm just pointing out the obvious fascism and use of a situation Richard

Sorry for editing while you had replied

I have just been frightened by a year or more of BS and lack of questions by anyone

Herd immunity BS etc

Indefinite variants, indefinite testing opportunity, indefinite vaccine opportunity, indefinite surveillance etc

Jumping on questioners. Silencing. Coverup of potential causes of pandemic etc

What else. Covid the only problem the world faces it seems etc

[thepossum]

Sorry for sounding like a conspiracy theorist. I just have a very dark view of humanity sometimes and their various motives

[hrothgar]

 thepossum, on 2021-June-15, 05:05, said:

Indefinite variants, indefinite testing opportunity, indefinite vaccine opportunity, indefinite surveillance etc

Jumping on questioners. Silencing. Coverup of potential causes of pandemic etc

Few high level comments:

1. I agree that a whole bunch of people have been jumping on CONVID denialists, anti-vaxxers, and the like

These people are sociopathic loons, and during a pandemic like COVID, they are both incredibly dangerous to have around and do enormous economic damage.

2. I also agree that the whole lab leak hypothesis was treated with enormous skepticism when folks like Tom Cotton and Mike Pompeo wer advancing it last year. Right now, it seems to be experiencing something of a Renaissance. I personally doubt that we will ever know with real certainty what happened. The one thing that I do know is the there is a reason that the story of the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" has persisted for thousands of years. (And, there is a reason why this story got new legs when a new and more credible administration entered office)

3. It's far from clear how many variants of COVID will be able to emerge. I have heard claims that geometry of the COVID spike proteins are only capable of a fairly limited set of changes, so, with luck we'll (eventually) have them all under control. Until then, life is going to be pretty shitty. I had been hoping to be vacationing abroad in late fall / winter. Things are starting to look more doubtful, especially given my typical travel destinations.

[cherdano]

Sorry for sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I just believe that there is this vast but secret, global, collaborative effort to make us all us all afraid, and to cover up the real situation, just so that the global elite can continue pocketing its money and cement its power via its ubiquitous secret network that shows up everywhere, whether it's a meeting of the cabinet or the Rowan street homeowner's association.

[Winstonm]

 cherdano, on 2021-June-15, 06:18, said:

Sorry for sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I just believe that there is this vast but secret, global, collaborative effort to make us all us all afraid, and to cover up the real situation, just so that the global elite can continue pocketing its money and cement its power via its ubiquitous secret network that shows up everywhere, whether it's a meeting of the cabinet or the Rowan street homeowner's association.

You forgot Q😏

[pilowsky]

Good grief.
Forget about "lab leaks" - or mad molecular scientists for that matter.
The scientists have been saying exactly the same thing since this started.
Now that Trump is out the same 76 million people that voted for Trump are ballooning their BS because - well - they have nothing better to do.
There was no lab leak, Arizona voted for Biden, the tooth fairy does not exist and Big Bird isn't funny.

[thepossum]

 cherdano, on 2021-June-15, 06:18, said:

Sorry for sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I just believe that there is this vast but secret, global, collaborative effort to make us all us all afraid, and to cover up the real situation, just so that the global elite can continue pocketing its money and cement its power via its ubiquitous secret network that shows up everywhere, whether it's a meeting of the cabinet or the Rowan street homeowner's association.

The first to go ad hom

Sorry I ignore ad hom attacks these days. They just upset me and end in unnecessary conflict

You could actually have read what I said, observed what I have observed over the last 18 months and maybe thought a little before jumping on me

You could also have chosen not to misrrepesent me, not to misattribute stuff to me, not to misassociate me with stuff. That is ad hom. Look it up

[thepossum]

 Winstonm, on 2021-June-15, 06:20, said:

You forgot Q��

Another ad hom attack

Seriously did you not even read what I said. Aboslutely nothing was crazy conspiracy stuff. But clearly to some who like to attack anyone who raises questions etc

Starting to wonder if these attacks are anything to do with various other attacks in different parts of my life. There seems to be a process of total attack against every aspect of my life, business and identities, on multiple forums. And no that is not paranoid. I have all the emails (and documents) and attacks to back it up. It could be this issue or various others I work in that have triggered those attacks. They could of course be unrelated

Maybe think about what I said, read it, consider it, use whatever brains you have instead of instantly going all defensive and attacking the person

Bear in mind all this stuff is very international now. And often people behind aliases know who people are and go after them on multiple forums etc

Also it cant be lack of certificates. That would be ad hom but many people without those certificates get away talking BS on a regular basis here and everywhere

One thing I have learned about through my life is power and how if enough forces are stacked against one person or group with an unpopular/undesirable message/campaign there is not much we can do about it. We will be silenced using one of the many means at their disposal

And the evidence I have is totally uncontrovertible against some party. You don't know which party. But I hope people understand logic enough to know there are some things that are unchallengeably true - one or more parties are clearly involved in a disgusting personal and professional attack against me for almost 25 years, maybe longer. But I haven't checked my documents to make sure they haven't been modified recently you never know which potential respondent is responsible do you