[msjennifer]

board 3 Bid this one.

---

SOUTH DEALER' . S-AQJ1093,H-VOID,D-Q10,C-AKJ76
NORTH--S-K6,H-AK632,D-AJ9,CQ32 MY PARTNER WAS SOUTH AND BID 6NT AFTER NOTING THAT DK WAS MISSING..He could count only upto12 it appeared.

[pescetom]

I suspect we would have the same problem. It's not easy for any natural based system given the split of strength and dealer's shape.
Make North dealer and it's a cinch.

[FelicityR]

Difficult but surely with 6-5 shape you don't want to be playing in NT here.

My sequence (with my regular partner)

1♠ - 2♥
3♣ - 3♦
3♠ - 4NT
5♠ - 5NT
6♣ - 7♠

2♥ is 2/1 GF
3♣ shows extras (15+ HCPs) and second suit. (2NT or 2♠ would show minimum hand.)
3♦ (Temporising. Showing control or suit.)
3♠ - at least 6 card suit.
4NT agrees ♠s, asks controls RKCB
5♠ - 2 aces + ♠Q
5NT (ask for specific kings)
6♣ - ♣K, etc.

Even if opener is 6-4 shape, responder can count nearly 13 tricks barring bad breaks. (Yes, that ♣J is an important card, but so could the ♥Q or ♦K be. Yes, not totally straightforward to bid, I agree.)

[ahydra]

playing Acol 5cM

1S-2H (nat, 10+)
3C (nat, 15+, GF)-3D (4SF)
4C (5-5 at least, unsuitable for NT)-4NT (RKC in clubs)
5D (0 or 3) - 5S (asks for help in spades)
7C (you betcha) - 7NT (5S, 5C, 2H, 1D)

I suppose from North's point of view, 7NT could conceivably require two 3-2 splits which probably makes it against the odds - imagine the same hand without the two black jacks. But life is too short.

ahydra

[nige1]

msjennifer's bidding problem
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

I like AHydra's start but lack confidence that 4N is RKC for ♣s.

---

[straube]

msjennifer, on 2019-December-01, 01:51, said:

board 3 Bid this one.

---

SOUTH DEALER' . S-AQJ1093,H-VOID,D-Q10,C-AKJ76
NORTH--S-K6,H-AK632,D-AJ9,CQ32 MY PARTNER WAS SOUTH AND BID 6NT AFTER NOTING THAT DK WAS MISSING..He could count only upto12 it appeared.

1C strong
1D very weak or GF
1S natural, f
1N GF
2C natural
2D asks
3C 5/5, short H
3D asks
4C 6025
4D asks
4H 9-10 Qs
4S asks
5C 10 QPs, 0 or 2 of top 3 spdes
5D asks
5H 0 or 2 of top 3 clubs
5S asks
6C A or Q of diamonds
6D asks
6N SJ and CJ
7N

[sfi]

I gave these hands to an established international pair this afternoon. Admittedly, they were navigating the hands through the mass of drinks on the table, but they came up with the following auction playing a naturalish 2/1 system:

1S - 2H (game forcing)
3C - 3D (waiting)
4C - 4D (cue for clubs)
4NT - 5S (2+Q for clubs)
5NT - 7C

Then there was a lot of discussion about different options, but all led to some sort of a grand.

[KingCovert]

With my partner:

1♣: 15+ (in 1st/2nd seat)
1♦: Game-Forcing (a good 9 or better)
2♣: 4+♣ (possible Canape)
2♥: 5+♥ (denies 4-card support of ♣)
2♠: ♠ > ♣
2N: Showing extra values (denies 3-card ♠ support)
3♣: Showing extra club length, hence 6+♠-5+♣. ♠ > ♣
3♠: Agreeing spades.

I think it's pretty trivial from here. There are a ton of lines.

4♣: Ace of ♣
4♦: 1st round control of ♦
4♥: 1st round control of ♥ (aka Void)
4N: 1430
5♠: 2 with the Q♠
5N: Specific Kings
6♣: K♣

7♠: Transfer to 7N. (Okay, that's a joke!)

In a 2/1 auction, I actually prefer the start 1♠-2♥-2♠. I see no reason why in a game forcing auction that 2♠ should promise a minimum whatsoever, this seems the best way to pattern out, and preserve the bidding room. Introduce clubs later, and it'll end much the same. I hope.

[pescetom]

sfi, on 2019-December-02, 00:14, said:

I gave these hands to an established international pair this afternoon. Admittedly, they were navigating the hands through the mass of drinks on the table, but they came up with the following auction playing a naturalish 2/1 system:

1S - 2H (game forcing)
3C - 3D (waiting)
4C - 4D (cue for clubs)
4NT - 5S (2+Q for clubs)
5NT - 7C

Then there was a lot of discussion about different options, but all led to some sort of a grand.

I've learned by now that experts can reach the right contract despite seemingly poor or fragile agreements, the important thing is to play the same stuff and then intelligence and experience wins out.
All the same, I share nige1's reserve about opener's second suit implicitly becoming trumps, even if repeated non-jump.
I'm also dubious about all claims to bid 7NT based upon RKC (or control-bidding come to that) in any suit - only North knows about the Q♣ and only South knows about J♠, without knowing both it does not seem logical to bid beyond small slam.

[sfi]

pescetom, on 2019-December-02, 15:28, said:

All the same, I share nige1's reserve about opener's second suit implicitly becoming trumps, even if repeated non-jump.

4D kind of has to agree clubs given the rest of the auction, otherwise responder would not have bid 3D the previous round. It can't be a suit because opener clearly doesn't have diamonds and because this partnership doesn't get to introduce new suits at the four level in these auctions.

[barmar]

I've moved this thread to "General Bridge Discussion". It doesn't seem to be a question or suggestion about tournaments, or even about BBO at all. It's just an ordinary bidding discussion.

[Cyberyeti]

nige1, on 2019-December-01, 17:50, said:

msjennifer's bidding problem
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

I like AHydra's start but lack confidence that 4N is RKC for ♣s.

---

For us 4♦ is unambiguously KC for clubs, so it proceeds:

1♠-2♥
3♣-3♦
4♣-4♦KC♣
4♥(0/3)-4N(all keycards K♠/Q♣, we use NT as the most expensive cue and 4♠ would ask for the Q, we only show the void initially with 2 keycards)
7N (can count 6♠5♣AA

[Fluffy]

IMO rebidding 3 spades after 4SF is clear, and then it is a big mess because I don't see any way to stablish spades as trumps, even 4NT as Felicity suggests could be taken as natural

[P_Marlowe]

Fluffy, on 2019-December-06, 02:36, said:

IMO rebidding 3 spades after 4SF is clear, and then it is a big mess because I don't see any way to stablish spades as trumps, even 4NT as Felicity suggests could be taken as natural

Yes, and it is not 100% clear, that 3S showes 6-4 at all, e.g. what would opener do with 5 spades and a single heart.
And given that, 4NT may be needed as natural.

Establishing spades as trumps, can be achieved, using a 4D bid, the only free suit, agreeing Partners last bid suit,
which may be your best Option with Kx, … as Long as 3C showes add strength, do we remember the discussion that after a gf
shape trumps strength, i.e. no add. strength is needed to introduce new suits (at the 3 Level).

Looking at the Hand, one would like to Play Soloway Strong Jumps Shifts, a strong NT was part of the Hand types included.

[Zelandakh]

Fluffy, on 2019-December-06, 02:36, said:

IMO rebidding 3 spades after 4SF is clear, and then it is a big mess because I don't see any way to stablish spades as trumps, even 4NT as Felicity suggests could be taken as natural

You don't play 4th suit at the 4 level as being a forcing raise in the last bid suit as default? I find it strange that an expert international player would have this difficulty when typical club-level agreements would not!