[sceptic]

http://www.bridgeguys.com/Conventions/AceS...ngResponse.html

Hi all this link is to an Ace showing response to a 2 club opener and my p wants to play it, I have no idea what pros and cons of it are can some one help me out and explain the way it works for me please, and if it is any good

2D = 0-7
2H = A H
2S = AS
2NT 8HCP NO ACES
3C = AC
3D = AD
3NT = 2 ACES

[mike777]

Ugg

Take a look at the site and their first bidding example

the strong hand is bidding 4nt blackwood when p could have 4hcp..one ace and out.....that is terrible.

[Blofeld]

Their example hands are appalling. On the first, opener uses blackwood after hearing the ace-response to 2♣, and therefore presumably knowing how many aces his p has!

I'm guessing that one needs some values apart from the ace in order to show the ace. At least the scheme makes marginally more sense then.

On the second hand, they say "6♥: We have 33-34HCPs, not enough for Grand Slam. Final Contract." when 7♥ is absolutely laydown (given that the opening lead isn't ruffed).

They don't seem to make any use of 2♣ : 3♥ or 2♣ : 3 ♠

---

As described, I think it's an awful system. It might be possible to have a good system which starts by showing your aces, but this isn't it.

[Gerardo]

What I know of this, 3♥ shows 2 Aces same color, 3♠ shows 2 Aces same range (both minor or both major), 3NT 2 Aces different color and range, so ♣♥ or ♦♠.
Subsequent 4NT asks for Kings.

[Chamaco]

Gerardo, on May 17 2005, 06:55 AM, said:

What I know of this, 3♥ shows 2 Aces same color, 3♠ shows 2 Aces same range (both minor or both major), 3NT 2 Aces different color and range, so ♣♥ or ♦♠.
Subsequent 4NT asks for Kings.

Yes, that's the "CRASH" scheme they teach to italian beginners for 2C opening (you 'll find it named as "CRODO" in italian profiles).

[helene_t]

My father plays
2♥: a red ace
2♠: a black ace
higher responses: two or more aces, I don't recall the details (maybe just 2NT showing two aces, opener will have the other two).

This works because the 2♣-opening shows either a balanced hand or a one-suited hand. In the latter case responders distributions is not so crucial since opener's suit will be trump anyway. And opener will not need two rebids to show his distribution.

If you open 2♣ on "any" battleship hand, partner should respond 2♦ with "13 cards" and something else with a suit that is really worth talking about (or 2♥ as an immediate second negative if you like). This is because if opener has 5-5 or 6-4 he needs bidding space. And if opener has 5431 a positive response showing a 5-card may be the only way to explore all possible fits (allthough it may not work when responder's suit is not good enough to bid).

So it depends how your 2♣-opening is defined.

Btw, if you don't play a 2♦ opening as natural weak you may define 2♣ as either a weak hand with diamonds or a strong hand. If responder "always" relays 2♦ anyway it costs little.

[Gerben42]

If you want to play something like this, I can recommend control showing responses.
Ace = 2
King = 1

Then after 2♣:
2♦ = 0-1 Control
2♥ = 2 Controls
2♠ = 3 Controls
etc.

This leads to practical and short auctions and opener knows what his aspirations are.

[Fluffy]

I played ace showing for a while when they told me that was standard in France, we switched in less than 3 months, because the system is just bad:

2♣ is already a high level opening, wich consumes space, if you consume even more space to find only how many aces partner has, you will maybe be at the 3 level and know nothing except how many aces you have.

Of course there will be hands where it will be helpful, those hands with 10+ tricks for example might find it easy to reach some slams or avoid others.

But hands much more common like 8-9 (7), tricks will instead be auto-preempted.

Even more, if you only need to know about aces try this:

2♣-2♦
3M/4m....

wich asks about direct cuebids. And oyu even know the fit also!.

[whereagles]

The ace-asking 2C bid is nice... if you get the right hand for it!

Since 11 or 12 tricks hands happen once every 10000 hands, it's probably best to respond to 2C in another way.

[reisig]

I'm always amazed at systems that steal opener's thunder (2C). When I open 2C - that says - "I have the best hand I've had in 3+ months)...why get in my way - just to show an ace...when You may end up as declarer (wrong side) and I feel frustrated trying to show my suit(s). My feeling is - let the opener bid..that's what he/she wants to do.

[inquiry]

reisig, on May 17 2005, 09:13 AM, said:

I'm always amazed at systems that steal opener's thunder (2C). When I open 2C - that says - "I have the best hand I've had in 3+ months)...why get in my way - just to show an ace...when You may end up as declarer (wrong side) and I feel frustrated trying to show my suit(s). My feeling is - let the opener bid..that's what he/she wants to do.

I agree that ACE showing responses to 2♣ is a total waste. You can, if you like, use opener's jump rebid as set trumps and ask for specific aces if you like.

However, I wanted to address Rich's comment about opening 2♣ once in three months... either you are not playing enough bridge (well, who can ever play enough.. :-) ), or your requirements for a 2♣ opening bid nees to be less restrictive. I have found Chris Ryall's two club structure to be very useful. I open a lot more hands 2♣ and I have reduced the nature of my non-2♣ openings (along the line of why precision players do better when they don't open 1♣). All in all, since I made this change several years ago (after playing the original shenken club, blue club, precision, Romex -- original version, and even trying ultimate club, and all sorts of 2/1, kaplan sheinwold, etc), I have finally found the bidding method that fits well with my temperment.

Ben

[whereagles]

What are your requirements to open 2C, may I ask?

[inquiry]

whereagles, on May 17 2005, 11:51 AM, said:

What are your requirements to open 2C, may I ask?

Stolen directly from this link http://www.cavendish...e/two/clubs.htm

It is true I play the slighlty older version, he has made some tweaks I have not adopted..but this is basically it.

Ben

[whereagles]

Let me see if I got this right. You open 2C from 8 playing tricks up, and use paradox responses.

With my live pard, I open 2C with the same hands, but we don't use paradox.

[inquiry]

whereagles, on May 17 2005, 12:12 PM, said:

Let me see if I got this right. You open 2C from 8 playing tricks up, and use paradox responses.

With my live pard, I open 2C with the same hands, but we don't use paradox.

Well, eight playing tricks in the major and a few other reqiurements (suit quality, controls).. but basically yes. Also a lot of 4-4-4-1 and 4-4-5-0 hands (any short suit) with 5+ controls and 5 or less losers....