[haka9]

I played a couple weeks ago in a tournament. One of the deals was not very successful for us. EW has 6 quick tricks in NT and NS has 8 quick tricks in NT. All but two pairs played 3 NT by N or S, always home. One pair played 4 ♥ with 4-3 ♥, home. I played 2 ♣ one down, because ♣ was split 5-3 by opponents.
With a sane defence in other tables we would get next to top instead of pure bottom.

[fromageGB]

Bridge is a game of probabilities, and if you are not quite certain of game, then it is usually correct to bid it. It is not normally desirable to play in a suit where the opponents have 8 cards.

[Stephen Tu]

Yes, sometimes in bridge your opponents "fix" you. They do something weird/anti-percentage but it works and you get a bottom. Or they are a good pair and do something clever most of the field is unable to do for some reason. Or you bid to a theoretically superior spot double dummy but in practice it doesn't work out. But over the course of many boards, usually these things will even out for you. Opponents hand you a gift out of nowhere that you don't have to do anything clever to collect. Or maybe one of your anti-percentage actions works out anyway.
On this board, hard to say without you posting it, but if you are the only pair in 2c, while the rest are in 3nt, you have to ask yourself why. Are you playing an anti-field system, or did you make an anti-field call? Did the opps do something weird? If you made an anti-field call, are you sure your call is actually percentage in the long run opposite the full range of what partner can have, vs what works on one particular deal?

Even though 3nt may go down 2 in theory double dummy, maybe the lead isn't clearcut, and on normal auction it isn't normal to find the winning lead.

[ray_p]

If you could predict all the results without playing the game, then the game wouldn't be worth playing!

Play to enjoy the variation!

[msjennifer]

Sir,I can't see any hand diagram on my Mac ,yet I can't imagine a hand where one plays in a contract of 2C with 8 trumps with opponents unless one is playing Precision and it goes 2Club all pass and strangely no one making any (not even balancing) bid. A simple 2C overcall is unlikely to be passed out except in some set deal.That apart, it appears that only your pair managed to play in a subpar contract.It is hence natural that you got a subpar result .Well, sometimes it does happen to quite a few.As my grand daddy tells me "Jennifer . On with the game",

[haka9]

I had KJx, KTx, AQxx, Txx. Partner opened with 1 ♦ at least 3, what next? We had no inverted minors, so I invented 2 ♣. And partner passed, she had xx in ♣. In IMP I would bid 3 NT, this was unfortunately pair competition with 0. I was expecting 6 ♦, in vain. In NT they have five in ♣ and one more in ♥ ace.

[Stephen Tu]

Apparently the 3-cd club suit was on lead at most tables so it's not a natural lead. The HA gets underlead, or perhaps something else is led and a heart is snuck by, still not clear to grab ace and switch to whatever 3 cd club holding.
Suppose you got your "justice" and the 5 cd club suit was on lead at most tables, e/w hands exchanged, and the field in 3nt -2 while you are in 2c-1. Imagine it from your opponent's perspective! Your side did something ridiculous, passing a forcing bid and playing a 3-2 fit, and gets a near top for doing so! They would be the ones justifiably griping about being completely fixed.

Getting to game with balanced hand opposite balanced hand, opening hand vs opening hand, but not diagnosing a particular suit weakness, is generally going to work out a lot better than playing 3-2 fits, in the long run. Leads aren't double dummy. You can be more scientific and avoid 3nt with unstopped suit on this auction (like the 4-3 heart pair) but will lose out sometimes when the field isn't bothering to do so and are unlucky that it is hard for the defense to find right lead or shift.
It's rather silly to complain about lack of justice by expecting to be rewarded for passing forcing bids and playing in the opponent's trump suit.

[haka9]

I put this topic online, because I have two almost alike experiences. About 35 years ago I had a mighty hand with hearts and points. I opened 1 ♣, 12-37 points and partner answered 1 ♦, might be next to nothing. I bid 2 ♦, game force and partner passed! Every other players were playing 6 ♥ with ♥ Q on the right side third, no points for us. Then about 25 years later I played team match. I have always believed, that new suit at 3 level is a force, but then it wasn't. Partner passed 3 ♣ and I was able to play it home despite of the weakness in trumps and heart Q sitting 3:thd on the wrong side. When I looked at the protocols, every other teams were playing 6 ♥ one down. We won the match with 16-14 and the whole competition with a small marginal.

[dsLawsd]

Bid 3 NT= let partner take care of hearts. If it fails then you will have plenty of company. But unless pard has psyched then they must bid out their hand...
With Kind regards...

[haka9]

I have never seen my partner psyche, and I probably won't ever see. Another similar situation was in June. Partner opened with a suit, I bid 2 ♣ (once again) and partner passed. The lady on lead asked "2 ♣ wasn't a force?" I answered politely "It should be, but this time it wasn't." That was -8 IMPs for us.

[smerriman]

I would say 2♣ getting a top score would therefore be injustice, not justice

[kuhchung]

honestly i hate it when people use the term "justice" in all types of probability games. someone gives you a bad beat, you shrug and move on. you took the percentage shot. guess what, 10% of the time, you will lose a 90-10 flip! that's how it works.

[AL78]

http://community.dur...rbridge/051.php

[paulg]

When there was justice in bridge and the best players won all the time, everyone else left and went to find another game.

This is why the Reisinger is the toughest event in the ACBL calendar but has the smallest entry.

It is why the Win/Lose Swiss died when victory points were introduced, immediately making Swiss Teams far more popular: you could now lose a match narrowly and still win the event.

It is one reason why par contests hardly ever happen, although the difficulty of constructing them is also an issue.

Like most things these days, we just want justice on our own terms

[pescetom]

AL78, on 2019-October-14, 01:49, said:

http://community.dur...rbridge/051.php

East had no right to bid 4S but it is nevertheless better, not "even worse".

[Stephen Tu]

pescetom, on 2019-October-14, 05:43, said:

East had no right to bid 4S but it is nevertheless better, not "even worse".

East shouldn't bid 4S, but he has the right to, the way most people play. Supposedly 2nt inquiry over 2M followed by 3nt is choice of games. But direct 3nt is to play with opener barred.

[AL78]

paulg, on 2019-October-14, 04:39, said:

When there was justice in bridge and the best players won all the time, everyone else left and went to find another game.

Chess is a game where there is no luck and the best player wins, does no-one play chess?

A significant luck element is also a turnoff. I get disillusioned during sessions where opponents do strange or poor actions/make mistakes and get rewarded for it, whilst I get the hand of God down on me for every single mistake. I have noticed it is the poor players/novices that complain about not being able to win, and won't play on the stronger evenings, because they want the thrill of feeling they have a chance of winning, and do win occasionally, but can't be bothered to put the time and effort in to become competitive. If you want to achieve something significant, you have to put the effort in, it is very rare there is an exception to this.

[paulg]

I don't play tournament chess so don't know if I can regular enter events and play against Magnus Carlsen, but I can do the equivalent in the bridge world.

But the majority of bridge players tend to avoid these opportunities, with even professional sponsored teams choosing to avoid the Reisinger for lesser events; teams entering the Mini-Spingold rather than the main event. In the UK, the top weekend event is the EBU Spring Foursomes, which does not attract the 64 teams it deserves even though it gives everyone the opportunity to play the stars of the UK bridge world. And even in Scotland, we cannot attract 32 teams to the Winter Foursomes which has all the stars of Scottish bridge and some foreign stars.

We've seen the rise of bracketed knockouts in the ACBL and tiered events elsewhere. People like to win and prefer events that give them a chance, which in a sense means that most people believe that there is justice in bridge and they'd prefer to avoid it