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bidding poll do you raise here?

#1 User is offline   scoob 

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Posted 2005-April-20, 19:48

(ok, so it's not really a poll)

partner deals; opps quiet

Scoring: IMP


1♠* - 1NT**
2♥ - ???

* limited to 15
** 8-10

what do you bid now?
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#2 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2005-April-20, 20:12

3H

8-10 HCP, 4H, 8 LOSER HAND.
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#3 User is offline   HeartA 

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Posted 2005-April-20, 20:26

3♥ also.
Senshu
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#4 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2005-April-20, 20:56

3H Wtp?
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#5 User is offline   Rebound 

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Posted 2005-April-20, 21:07

The_Hog, on Apr 20 2005, 10:56 PM, said:

3H Wtp?

Ditto
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy - but it might improve my bridge.
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#6 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2005-April-20, 22:27

4!h... we are vul, partner will not think i am this good for 3!h
--Ben--

#7 User is offline   bearmum 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 00:15

3♥ ;)
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#8 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 01:01

3H.

Game is still possible, so just ask opener.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#9 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 02:00

3H as well. A straight 4 might make but may also drive pard to a hopeless 6.
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#10 User is offline   joker_gib 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 02:16

3♥
Alain
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#11 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 02:42

3♥ if no other agreement. I prefer 2NT to be a sound raise of opener's second suit; then I have 3♥ free to show a weaker 4-card raise (not invitational). If opener is max (17-18 and a singleton in a natural system) he may consider a raise.

Roland
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#12 User is online   awm 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 02:59

3♥ here seems clear.

I should mention that this seems to be a perfect hand for the methods. Since 1NT is 8-10, there is no real danger that the 3♥ raise might show a better hand. In 2/1, 1NT is much wider ranging and there's a possibility partner might take me for 11-12 points on the 3♥ bid.

On the other hand, the opening is limited, so presumably pass is an option with a mediocre eight count. I'd assume opener had the option to rebid 3♥ with 5-5 in the majors and a near-max. This means my 3♥ raise should show a little extra in terms of playing strength -- with doubleton spade instead of one of the small clubs passing should be quite safe.
Adam W. Meyerson
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#13 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 03:41

inquiry, on Apr 21 2005, 06:27 AM, said:

4!h... we are vul, partner will not think i am this good for 3!h

I thought your partner would open according to the rule of 17, especially when playing Precision? 3♥ may already be too high.
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#14 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 04:13

inquiry, on Apr 20 2005, 11:27 PM, said:

4!h... we are vul, partner will not think i am this good for 3!h

This is exactly why you should play 2NT as a constructive heart raise. That gives him room to explore if in doubt. 3♥ ruins all game tries.

Roland
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#15 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 04:37

3♥, nothing else...
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#16 User is offline   flytoox 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 04:46

I would raise to 3H too, but this hand is not so good as many suggested here. If pd has 5431, you are likely down in 4H.
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#17 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 04:50

i tend to agree with ben.. i already had a decent hand, now it's even better... i'd bid 4h
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#18 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 04:53

scoob, on Apr 21 2005, 01:48 AM, said:

what do you bid now?

3H,, top of promised values, actually you even have extras isn shape, 3H is invitational, with 8 losers it sounds correct.

pard should bid game with 6-6.5 losers hand, eeven if he holds a minimum in hcp.

AQxxx-Axxx-x-Qx
AJTxx-KQxx-Kxx-x

Are examples of (close to) minimums in terms of hcp that should accept Game Invite.

Sometimes some of these minimums can go down, but they are a good bet.
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#19 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 05:20

helene_t, on Apr 21 2005, 05:41 AM, said:

inquiry, on Apr 21 2005, 06:27 AM, said:

4!h... we are vul, partner will not think i am this good for 3!h

I thought your partner would open according to the rule of 17, especially when playing Precision? 3♥ may already be too high.

I use ZAR points rather than rule of 17. My partner will open some 7 or 8 hcp hands, even six if not ACBL, with appropriate distribution and a minimum of 26 ZAR points.

My hand, in support of hearts has 8 hcp, 3 control points, 13 distributional points, 1 point for the heart ten, and 2 points for the singleton spade in support of hearts. That comes to 27 ZAR support points. Now the truth is there should be some minus for the fact that I don't support partner's first suit. But partner doesn't have to have a mimimum of 26, he could have 27 or 28, and would pass the jump to 3H. Being Vul at imps, I am not willing to languish in 3H.

Can 3H be too high? Of course, but it can be too low as well. At Matchpoint, 3H is enough. Not vul at imps, 3H is probably enough. It would be nice if you could use 2NT here as "strong" invite to 4H, but this is clearly not standard and the question here is between pass, 3H and 4H I beleive.

Ben
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#20 User is offline   scoob 

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Posted 2005-April-21, 07:36

ok, seems 3♥ is pretty popular here

would any of you change your opinion if you know for certain opener's ♥'s are only 4 long?
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