[Laplace0]

How to handle mixed (minor-major) 2-suited hands after an opening of 1N in 2 over 1?

[pescetom]

Laplace0, on 2019-April-11, 03:05, said:

How to handle mixed (minor-major) 2-suited hands after an opening of 1N in 2 over 1?

Maybe you should expand your question, which at first sight doesn't seem to have much to do with 2 over 1.
What kind of hands do you open (or not) 1NT?
What kind of Stayman do you play and what can it do (or not) with mixed hands?
What problems are you worried about?

[Cyberyeti]

And what suit lengths are you talking about

[ahydra]

Fairly standard is: transfer then bid the minor (GF) if you have 5+ cards in the major, or use Stayman then bid the minor (again, GF) if only four.

An expert standard, full system of responses is:

2C Stayman, 2D/H transfers, 2S transfer to 3C or 3D, 2NT invitational [or 2S transfer to clubs and 2NT transfer to diamonds, with flat invitational hands going via stayman]
3C Puppet Stayman, 3D both minors (or some play both majors) 5-5, 3M = shortage in M with 5-4 minors.

ahydra

[gordontd]

ahydra, on 2019-April-11, 05:37, said:

2S transfer to 3C or 3D, 2NT invitational

I think it is misleading to describe this either as expert standard or as a transfer.

[Laplace0]

Sorry, my question was incomplete. After long time playing various strong club systems, I decided to try 2 0ver 1, following the book of Max Hardy. I adopted most of the material presented there (forcing Smolen, minor suit Stayman, Jakoby transfers including Walsh relay, etc., but I have a problem with mixed minor-major 2 suited hands. For example after a 1nt opening (15-17 HCP), I believe a weak unbalanced hand with a 5+ minor suit and a 4 major suit, say 2-4 HCP, reserves a Stayman bid to discover a possible major fit and should retain the escape of 3 in the minor. Hardy and many others I discovered in the Web proposes to use this for slam going hands. Lets start with this. Is my problem naive?

[Cyberyeti]

Laplace0, on 2019-April-11, 06:08, said:

Sorry, my question was incomplete. After long time playing various strong club systems, I decided to try 2 0ver 1, following the book of Max Hardy. I adopted most of the material presented there (forcing Smolen, minor suit Stayman, Jakoby transfers including Walsh relay, etc., but I have a problem with mixed minor-major 2 suited hands. For example after a 1nt opening (15-17 HCP), I believe a weak unbalanced hand with a 5+ minor suit and a 4 major suit, say 2-4 HCP, reserves a Stayman bid to discover a possible major fit and should retain the escape of 3 in the minor. Hardy and many others I discovered in the Web proposes to use this for slam going hands. Lets start with this. Is my problem naive?

No it's not naive, I play weak NT but the same sort of problem exists, what is 1N-2♣-2M-3m ? We actually do play it as drop dead, but that is more likely to be useful in a weak NT context.

[Laplace0]

Thank you all. As I see,fairly and expert standard use it as GF. One have then to pass with the weak hand, or?

[pescetom]

With strong NT I think most reserve the minor suit escape for game going or stronger hands. But very weak with long diamonds and a major, one might risk Stayman all the same, partner permitting.

[steve2005]

With 5+ minor and 4-card major I like to Stayman and then bid 3 of minor suit forcing if no major suit fit found.

With 6 minor 5 major I transfer to major then bid minor natural and forcing

[gordontd]

Cyberyeti, on 2019-April-11, 06:13, said:

No it's not naive, I play weak NT but the same sort of problem exists, what is 1N-2♣-2M-3m ? We actually do play it as drop dead, but that is more likely to be useful in a weak NT context.

I play that to in a weak-NT context, but when playing strong-NT I like that to be invitational, because it's hand-type that is not often otherwise catered for. With a strong 4M+5m I transfer to the minor and then bid the major, but I know the popular American style is to use that as a splinter bid with 6m.

[Laplace0]

Summarising, 1N-2♣-2M-3m after a strong NT is mostly played as GF, leaving very weak hands with 5+ minor and a 4 card major as only alternative to pass. Actually, such hands are becoming non biddable.

[Stephen Tu]

With 4M-6m weak you always have the option of either passing or signing off in the minor. You just lose the potentially higher scoring major fit if it exists.
If you are willing to play "pass or blast", giving up on invites holding 4cd M (just have responder choose either pass 1nt or GF), you can also do things like 2nd round transfers, 1nt-2c-(2x)-2nt = clubs, weak or strong, 1nt-2c-2x-3c = diamonds, weak or strong. This can also be accomplished by putting some 4 cd M invites into transfer sequences like in some Swedish methods.
It's not like strong club systems avoid this issue as they'll have the same problem as almost all have some natural NT range.