[1920jam]

I am a beginner/novice and have witnessed and been the recipient of very rude, abusuve remarks. A favourite is IDIOT. BBO is an incredible opportunity for brudge lovers of all levels to play with thousands of people around the world. Why are some extremely angry, rude people allowed to say such terrible things? If a person is frustrated, then just quietly leave the table...which is what most do BUT can’t something be done about the people making nasty, hurtful remarks?

[nige1]

1920jam, on 2018-December-22, 14:11, said:

I am a beginner/novice and have witnessed and been the recipient of very rude, abusuve remarks. A favourite is IDIOT. BBO is an incredible opportunity for brudge lovers of all levels to play with thousands of people around the world. Why are some extremely angry, rude people allowed to say such terrible things? If a person is frustrated, then just quietly leave the table...which is what most do BUT can't something be done about the people making nasty, hurtful remarks?

On-line, rudeness is rife and is condoned in Bridge play -- and in most discussion-groups (other than Bridge-winners). In face-to-face Bridge, rudeness is less common but when it occurs, I've never witnessed a director impose a disciplinary penalty. At International level, when world-class players openly accuse their opponents of cheating. directors just tell them to play on, without sanction. Perhaps the game of Bridge attracts unpleasant people.

[pescetom]

nige1, on 2018-December-22, 15:11, said:

On-line, rudeness is rife and is condoned in Bridge play and Bridge discussion-groups. In face-to-face Bridge, rudeness is less common but when it occurs, I've never witnessed a director impose a disciplinary penalty. At International level,, when world-class players openly accuse their opponents of cheating. directors just tell them to play on but impose no sanction. Perhaps the game of Bridge attracts unpleasant people.

Or brings out the unpleasantness in otherwise amiable people. I was a beginner just a few years ago and remember vividly how I was treated and how tempting it was to give up, despite my interest in the game. You get quickly used to the rudeness of face-to-keyboard nicknames, less so to the face-to-face psychological violence of opponents and even occasional partners. I too have never witnessed a disciplinary penalty, although the director did once take me aside later and remark soberly "what did you expect, bridge players are animals"
On a more positive note, you can do a lot to mitigate this situation by example and attitude. They aren't animals, just people who have got used to behaving as if they were.

[johnu]

pescetom, on 2018-December-22, 15:39, said:

They aren't animals

Is that an opinion or a statement of fact

[pescetom]

An opinion, as yet unproven.

Yes sometimes it's hard to believe.

The opponent whose misbehaviour caused my director call was himself a director.

[vincechand]

Would be great if there was a clipboard to post the user name of the guilty party with a quick cut and paste option for their comment

[AL78]

Online communication disconnects people from consequences, which allows those whose parents failed to teach morality at a young age, the ability to bully and abuse without consequence. The more someone is allowed to abuse without comeback, the more it is validated, and the more entitled they feel to abuse. There comes a point where they will never change, so the only solution is for an authority to kick them out, which requires an authority with guts, or for the victim to cut ties with the abuser. It is in one way unfortunate that those who are abusive don't regularly get punched in the face repeatedly, because that would ultimately impose a cost on being abusive much greater than any perceived benefit. I've heard it said that the behaviour of the civilised can be much worse that that of savages, because the civilised know they can say what they want without the risk of having their skull caved in.

[AL78]

pescetom, on 2018-December-22, 15:39, said:

I too have never witnessed a disciplinary penalty, although the director did once take me aside later and remark soberly "what did you expect, bridge players are animals"

I have a sex drive, but I don't go around raping women, so I fail to see the logic of your failure of a director.

[pescetom]

AL78, on 2020-June-22, 10:46, said:

I have a sex drive, but I don't go around raping women, so I fail to see the logic of your failure of a director.

Not sure what you mean.
Just to be clear, the offender was an opponent who happened to also be a director.
My only point in mentioning it was that even some people who know the laws and have a reputation to protect are ready to be rude to the point of violence.

[Chas_P]

From BBO's Rules of the Site...written by Uday about 20 years ago:

Quote

We are committed to maintaining a pleasant atmosphere on Bridge Base Online. Playing on this site should be seen as a privilege, not as a right. As you will see, our site maintains higher standards of conduct than most other online sites. All members are expected to follow our rules as they are outlined in this document.
If you see another member violate any of our rules, please e-mail: abuse@bridgebase.com

First time offenders will be warned that their behavior is not acceptable and they will be put on probation. Subsequent complaints concerning a member on probation will result in that member's permanent expulsion from this site.

If a member is expelled from this site it is illegal for that person to try to return. Unfortunately, it is not always technically possible for us to keep that person away, but we will get that member's ISP and the police involved if necessary. We are serious about this.

Obviously it is impossible for BBO to permanently expel someone from the site; all they have to do is create a new username and continue their damphoolishness. Humans are deuterostomes which means that when they develop in the womb the anus forms before any other opening.
This means that at one time you were nothing more than an asshole.
Some people never develop beyond this stage.
We (yellows) do our best to keep these people away. But all we can do is ban them for two days, after which they'll be right back continuing their immaturity and assholosity. You have the option of putting those who offend you on "Ignore". If you do that you will never see chat from them. They can spout all the crap they want to, but you will never see a word of it.

[pilowsky]

Are bridge players rude, stupid, or something else?

Here is a well-known quote from Shakespeare.

ANNE: Villain, thou know'st not law of God nor man.No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity.

RICHARD: But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

This applies to many of the people that you might meet in Bridge world. They look like people. They sound like people. But sometimes something is missing. Let's think about what goes into a complete human. In Yiddish, the highest praise that you can give another person is to call them a Mensch. This literally means Human being. You have differentiated them from an animal.

Do not be deceived by somebody calling themselves a Director or a Bridge Teacher. These are not mighty accomplishments. Look up the qualifications needed to become one. You will see what I mean.

When I first took up bridge again after retiring I too fell into the trap of reverting to childhood ways. I was a childhood chess player. I carried on like a child for a short time. I was a little unsteady but rapidly regained my equilibrium. I am still a poor bridge player, but I am enjoying the game.

What about rudeness? To be a Human, one needs to pass through a series of developmental stages. Not everyone successfully manages this. Some people pass through them and then oscillate back and forth for various reasons.

Here is my brief summary of the stages. I call them Qualities.

Base qualities are those that a person appears with at birth. The English call them congenital from the Latin 'con-' meaning 'with' and 'gene-' birth. English speaking doctors do this in order to make themselves sound smart and to disguise their meaning from patients. Priests did the same thing by using Latin as a 'secret language'. 'Secret' also comes from the Latin 'secretus' meaning to set apart. Ironically, Sacred can also have the same meaning 'to set apart'. In both cases, the intent is to disguise meaning and create a language that has meaning that is only partly understandable. Not all groups of people do this. If I ask Google to translate congenital into German it gives me 'angeboren' which in German simply means inborn even to the average German. Same in Dutch 'aangeboren' but not in Esperanto! 'kongresa' - shame on them.

Primary qualities are those that develop on top of base qualities as the person develops and grows through its initial stages. Unimpaired by environmental toxins and provided with optimal nutrition you will continue to develop as programmed by your genetic load.

Secondary qualities are acquired on top of primary qualities. The child, for example, can walk, and understand that when its mother is out of the room she still exists (object permanence). Eventually, the child gains control of its faculties and basic physical abilities. It can walk, talk, eat and annoy its parents. These secondary qualities develop over our entire lifetime and are quite plastic. They can strengthen or atrophy depending on use or disuse. Following a severe injury, they can be irreparably damaged.

Tertiary qualities are acquired over and above secondary qualities. Tertiary qualities require scholarship. Scholarship is a learning activity in which knowledge that has been acquired over time by other members of a Society is accumulated by an individual so that that individual can use that knowledge productively. Tertiary qualities may range from the ability to operate a supermarket checkout to brain surgery. It is still simply an accumulation of knowledge by an individual that is used productively for the benefit of themselves and society in general.

Synthesized qualities stand apart from all of the qualities discussed above. Synthesized qualities include insight, imagination, self-reflection, volunteerism, altruism, empathy and generosity. One central feature of synthesized qualities is that there is no obvious reward for the person who has these qualities. Yet, the person believes that there is considerable value to these qualities.

In some cases, people are driven to behave in this way because they are told that something called 'God' requires it. But, many people are confirmed non-believers in any kind of God. what is their reason for such apparently unrewarding behaviour? If existence is truly absurd and pointless, why help others? Why should one seek to discover new things with the objective of helping others and improving the common good?

Their reasoning may be that calm, order and the well-being off all people around them is the most important thing for everyone's continued existence. Since there is no 'afterlife' only this life. Therefore, we should all strive to ensure that everyone in this world achieves as much happiness as possible. Only then can the social contract be truly achieved.

Another way to understand bridge players is to read either Flatland or Sneetches on Beaches. Both books give a pretty clear idea of what happens when people fail to understand each other.

Bridge is incredibly frustrating for many of the people that play it because the language that is used (bidding) conveys very little meaning and the Players are often not good at interpreting subtle meanings. Just read the pages of this forum. Every question yields dozens of divergent opinions. Frustration, as Yoda remarked (probably), leads to anger which in people that lack synthesized qualities can quickly turn to anger which is displayed as misogyny, rudeness, violence, antisemitism, racism and all sorts of other bad behaviour.

Everyone has different ways of managing this.

I have reported one Director to the Jewish Board of Deputies. I do not expect much to be achieved. I now restrict my bridge activity to online games. If a player abuses me online, I may report it but I always make a comment to myself in the space provided, save the chat and follow them. I make a point of using my own name when playing. After all, my relatives died in the Holocaust. I may not believe in God, but I am Yad Vashem.


Good luck partner.

[AL78]

pescetom, on 2020-June-22, 13:26, said:

Not sure what you mean.
Just to be clear, the offender was an opponent who happened to also be a director.
My only point in mentioning it was that even some people who know the laws and have a reputation to protect are ready to be rude to the point of violence.

It is a fallacy to try and justify or trivialise something on the basis that lots of people do it or by appealing to nature.

"what did you expect, bridge players are animals" is committing that fallacy, and if it was applied universally, we would all live in a world where the bullies and thugs dominate, the meek and mild are trampled down, and survival would depend on how aggressive/violent you can be. Not a world I would want to live in, and is why humans developed the concept of morality and justice, to protect the vulnerable, which is one hallmark of a civilised society.

[pescetom]

AL78, on 2020-June-23, 04:25, said:

It is a fallacy to try and justify or trivialise something on the basis that lots of people do it or by appealing to nature.

"what did you expect, bridge players are animals" is committing that fallacy, and if it was applied universally, we would all live in a world where the bullies and thugs dominate, the meek and mild are trampled down, and survival would depend on how aggressive/violent you can be. Not a world I would want to live in, and is why humans developed the concept of morality and justice, to protect the vulnerable, which is one hallmark of a civilised society.

So you were referring to the 'animals' comment of the director of the tournament.
I agree with you in that I would not endorse his comment and would already have given up bridge if it was true.
But he wasn't trying to trivialise or justify my opponent's behaviour, which he clearly despised: if anything he was trying to justify his own behaviour I would say.

[Bad_Wolf]

AL78, on 2020-June-22, 10:42, said:

Online communication disconnects people from consequences, which allows those whose parents failed to teach morality at a young age, the ability to bully and abuse without consequence. The more someone is allowed to abuse without comeback, the more it is validated, and the more entitled they feel to abuse. There comes a point where they will never change, so the only solution is for an authority to kick them out, which requires an authority with guts, or for the victim to cut ties with the abuser. It is in one way unfortunate that those who are abusive don't regularly get punched in the face repeatedly, because that would ultimately impose a cost on being abusive much greater than any perceived benefit. I've heard it said that the behaviour of the civilised can be much worse that that of savages, because the civilised know they can say what they want without the risk of having their skull caved in.

Yes, the politest society on earth is prison society. And yes I do know...

[0 carbon]

Some people are mad at the world. I don't want them playing in GlobalClub tourneys. My pertinent announcements:

• 🌏🌎🌍Partner/Opp an idiot or slowpoke？ Just ask TD to sub you.  Angry？ Seethe very quietly. Or leAVE.  Agree conventions BEFORE any bidding. Break the rules and you may be banned, from🌎GlobalClub, and even BBO.  Partner a genius? Tell her so!
• 🌏🌎🌍Partner mistake? Do not insult. Be positive. Suggest action+result, eg, "4!s makes if you finesse !h" Apologize if YOU make a mistake, eg, "sp" (sorry, partner) Partner insulting? Do NOT escalate. Call TD. Copy to TD and to Abuse.
• 🌏🌎🌍Be kind/honest/ethical/relaxed. Alert special bids. No insults, no advice, no hints, no spoiler bids, no sexism, no racism, no vulgarities, no spamming, no threats, no directions, no politics - chat & have fun!
• 🌏🌎🌍TD (Mal)Adjusts Subbed/Slow Tables, Alert Failures, Bad Claims, Psyches, Misclicks, Spoiler Bids, Unresponsiveness, Non‑English Language, And More…  Slow Or Rulebreaker? Expect To Be Fined Tricks Or Subbed Or Banned Or…   
• 🌏🌎🌍Has anyone broken the rules at this table? Rude? Hints? Insults? Copy rule violations to TD and "Abuse". Use PrtSc key, then paste in Email. Email screenshot/phone-photo to abuse@bridgebase.com and GlobalClub@abacurial.com  Click the “Report Abuse” button in the offender’s profile.

Being a bad player is fine - we ALL start out that way. But rudeness means subbing and possible banning from our free GlobalClub tourneys

[pilowsky]

0 carbon, on 2021-February-20, 16:52, said:

Some people are mad at the world. I don't want them playing in GlobalClub tourneys. My pertinent announcements:

• 🌏🌎🌍Partner/Opp an idiot or slowpoke？ Just ask TD to sub you.  Angry？ Seethe very quietly. Or leAVE.  Agree conventions BEFORE any bidding. Break the rules and you may be banned, from🌎GlobalClub, and even BBO.  Partner a genius? Tell her so!
• 🌏🌎🌍Partner mistake? Do not insult. Be positive. Suggest action+result, eg, "4!s makes if you finesse !h" Apologize if YOU make a mistake, eg, "sp" (sorry, partner) Partner insulting? Do NOT escalate. Call TD. Copy to TD and to Abuse.
• 🌏🌎🌍Be kind/honest/ethical/relaxed. Alert special bids. No insults, no advice, no hints, no spoiler bids, no sexism, no racism, no vulgarities, no spamming, no threats, no directions, no politics - chat & have fun!
• 🌏🌎🌍TD (Mal)Adjusts Subbed/Slow Tables, Alert Failures, Bad Claims, Psyches, Misclicks, Spoiler Bids, Unresponsiveness, Non‑English Language, And More…  Slow Or Rulebreaker? Expect To Be Fined Tricks Or Subbed Or Banned Or…   
• 🌏🌎🌍Has anyone broken the rules at this table? Rude? Hints? Insults? Copy rule violations to TD and "Abuse". Use PrtSc key, then paste in Email. Email screenshot/phone-photo to abuse@bridgebase.com and GlobalClub@abacurial.com  Click the "Report Abuse" button in the offender's profile.

Being a bad player is fine - we ALL start out that way. But rudeness means subbing and possible banning from our free GlobalClub tourneys

That all sounds fine, but I disagree with "Partner mistake? Do not insult. Be positive. Suggest action+result, eg, "4!s makes if you finesse !h"
Many of the people that one meets in tournaments know when they've made a mistake, and find it a little annoying to have someone point out the obvious.


I don't mind being a 'bad player', I don't ever expect to be a 'good player' but - with the exception of difficult endings I can usually tell when I've blundered, and if not, a quick look at the double-dummy will tell me.
I don't know if it is 'rude', but I don't like having mistakes pointed out unless I ask for help.

[thepossum]

1920jam, on 2018-December-22, 14:11, said:

I am a beginner/novice and have witnessed and been the recipient of very rude, abusuve remarks. A favourite is IDIOT. BBO is an incredible opportunity for brudge lovers of all levels to play with thousands of people around the world. Why are some extremely angry, rude people allowed to say such terrible things? If a person is frustrated, then just quietly leave the table...which is what most do BUT can’t something be done about the people making nasty, hurtful remarks?

I've been on the receiving end of incredible rudeness at Bridge tables. Sometimes playing opposite an incompetent beginner such as I used to be would be extremely frustrating but there is never any excuse for pointing it out cruelly. I hardly ever play with strangers anymore. Occasionally I will drop into a table for a hand or too, hope I dont have a difficult declare. If I end up declaring my mind goes blank, I play as quickly as I can and leave before anyone can say anything I did alright with that approach - made a few difficult contracts

One time mid-declare on quite a difficult game contract a partner called me an idiot after one play. I left the table, I believe the bot completed it and made a tough game

PS Before anyone gets the wrong idea I believe that rudeness and having a go at partners is part and parcel of Bridge culture - even opps sometimes if they do the wrong thing but usually its partners who cop it all.

[pigpenz]

best thing to do is just hide the Chat window, then you will never no what they think of your so called bad plays.
Its just as annoying as someone saying nice play partner when you make your bid but should have made 2 overtricks.
its part of the learning process!

[thepossum]

pigpenz, on 2021-March-12, 14:20, said:

best thing to do is just hide the Chat window, then you will never no what they think of your so called bad plays.
....

slightly missing the point I feel

I had the chat window closed and it popped up with the word "idiot" in it once from my partner while I was playing

And to be frank it doesnt matter who my partner is. It could have been Bob Hamman or some nobody from nowhere who insulted me mid declare. Anyone who did it would get the same treatment back from me

[pilowsky]

My biggest grumble is when I get invited onto a friendly table for a few hands (incredibly, it does happen) and my partner (and/or) opponents decide to 'coach' me.
It's not the coaching that bothers me - even if they're quite dogmatic as Bridge players sometimes are (say it isn't so) - it's more the effect that this sort of carry-on might have on other players.

Sometimes I say things I later regret - who can cast the first stone. I always feel bad about it.
People don't realise how much other people invest in what is apparently just a game.
A neurosurgeon once said to me when I was complaining about something trivial: "Come on Paul, no-ones dying".
It's hard to argue with a neurosurgeon.
I guess I could have said, "I know that - it's more important - my partner didn't return my lead. What an idiot!". But, as Dr Suess would say, "I didn't, and now it's too late!."