[Chamaco]

Hi all ! :-)

I received before the weeknd a copy of Boehm's "Demon boubling, demon defense", and there is one thing that puzzled me.

He first presents a hand with a standard "discovery play" in NT:

Against 3NT pard leads low in a suit where dummy has xxx, and we hold AQx: in this case, the correct play is to play the Q as "discovery play", to see whether declarer has the K or not.
This is one of the first play taught in beginner-intermediate classes.

However, I was puzzled when he took things further:

pard leads low in a SUIT contract, dummy has xxx and we have KJx.
Boehm says that, as we know pard does not underlead Aces (if he did, his fault), we should play the JACK, not the KING, to discover who has the Q.

In this second case, all looks logical, but is it "standard" enough ?
I mean, I am afraid that if I play this way (the J) with an occasional pard, with no special agreement, he will play the rest of the hand assuming I do not have the K, and perhaps reconstruct declarer's hand on a wrong basis.

I'd appreciate comments on whether this Discovery Play vs suit contract is standard or not in an undiscussed partnership.

Thanks !

Mauro

[luis]

Hi,
Playing the J with KJx against a suit contract is universally standard. In fact if you do play the King pd will assume that declarer has the J.

Luis

PS: If pd thinks for ages and leads the suit the King is safer :-) Just kidding....

[luke warm]

luis, on May 3 2005, 10:00 AM, said:

PS: If pd thinks for ages and leads the suit the King is safer :-) Just kidding....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[mike777]

Jlall, on May 3 2005, 11:33 AM, said:

I would say its standard among good players in most cases, but not in an auction where there is some possibility of partner underleading an ace.

Ya, keep in mind when p may be trying for ruff and looking for entry into your hand. Of course I have had happen on computer bridge where they win K and return J. hahaha.

[EricK]

It is standard. But as always you should try to "work out" as much of the whole hand first. eg who is likely to get in first? Is it important for partner to cash out if he has the Q? Might partner be underleading the Ace!? Might it be more important not to let declarer know what honours we have? etc

Eric

[Stephen Tu]

The play of Q from AQx vs. NT isn't a discovery play; the purpose is to prevent declarer from ducking with Kxx and blocking partner from running the suit. After all you could "discover" just as well by playing the ace first then the Q. You play Q first so declarer will take the K immediately, fearing opening leader has the ace.

It is standard to play the J from KJx so you can figure out how the cards lie, and partner should be aware of this possibility, but as Eric mentions there are hands when you know partner will get in first, and you want to make it easy for him to cash the Q, where playing the K might be better.

[whereagles]

AQx
.......Kxx

Declarer can still duck the Q lead, and duck again later if defender switches suit. (He'll need good presence though.)

[luis]

whereagles, on May 4 2005, 09:04 AM, said:

AQx
.......Kxx

Declarer can still duck the Q lead, and duck again later if defender switches suit. (He'll need good presence though.)

Er... no, declarer can't duck unless he sees through the cards, Imagine the leader has AJxxx of spades, low lead to the Q, declarer ducks with Kxx, spade back....
Mmm.....

[whereagles]

I don't understand what you're trying to say, Luis. Care to be more specific??

[kgr]

Justin and Luis say to play the J.
Before I read this post I would play the K.
=> It is standard to play the J among real experts. I would assume on BBO that advanced (and a lot of self declared experts) will play the K.

[luke warm]

whereagles, on May 4 2005, 09:34 AM, said:

I don't understand what you're trying to say, Luis. Care to be more specific??

i believe luis is saying that declarer can't afford to duck the spade... if your lho has spades, you have to assume (once the Q is played) that he has A, J 5th... if you duck and a spade comes back, you're down...

[han]

Although I consider the play of the jack standard, I think that the play of the king does not deny the jack. When you want to know what's happening in the suit, play the jack. When you think that partner needs to know but you don't, play the king.