BBO Discussion Forums: Famous Hand 1997 - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Famous Hand 1997 Hamman - Wolff

#1 User is offline   mike777 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,817
  • Joined: 2003-October-07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2005-May-01, 21:13

Very controversial hand from 1997 Bermuda Bowl final in Tunisia.

What is your bidding plan on most common follow-up?

AKJ62
AKJ8432
VOID
J

1C=3C=3D=5C
?

1C=16+

This was Hamman hand that brings up many issues.
Wolff hand and bidding is just as controversial if not more.

It has been suggested in print that this deal contributed to the breakup of the Hamman-Wolff partnership.

Bridge World, Barry Rigal, Howard Weinstein and Kokish have written and published research on some of the issues raised on this hand. A few recent forum threads have discussed some of the issues as well.
0

#2 User is offline   shoeless 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 189
  • Joined: 2005-February-05

Posted 2005-May-01, 21:37

What does 3c normally show in their system?
0

#3 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2005-May-01, 21:57

I would pass then pull to 6H (suggesting spades? lol)

As for this deal contributing to the breakup of Hamman-Wolff that is simply not true.
0

#4 User is offline   shoeless 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 189
  • Joined: 2005-February-05

Posted 2005-May-01, 22:10

ahh the opps are in the auction - whew assumed passes
0

#5 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2005-May-01, 23:42

I'd choose for 5NT unless that's natural (then 6♣)...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#6 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2005-May-02, 03:51

6♥, really don't see what else, you have to pay a price fro playing precision :).
BridgeGod: my personal website with interactive problems and articles
0

#7 User is offline   Gerben42 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,577
  • Joined: 2005-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erlangen, Germany
  • Interests:Astronomy, Mathematics
    Nuclear power

Posted 2005-May-02, 03:58

I lead the ♠A against any grand they bid. Or is that a different hand?

5NT
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
My Bridge Systems Page

BC Kultcamp Rieneck
0

#8 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2005-May-02, 07:20

I don't understand you guys, anything you bid that is not a ♥ bid is gonna be taken as ♦ support.
BridgeGod: my personal website with interactive problems and articles
0

#9 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2005-May-03, 11:11

well if partner bids diamonds over pass, and you correct to hearts he should get the idea. Alternatively if he bids diamonds over 5N and you correct to hearts he should get the point.
0

#10 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,724
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2005-May-03, 11:21

mike777, on May 2 2005, 06:13 AM, said:

It has been suggested in print that this deal contributed to the breakup of the Hamman-Wolff partnership.

I've heard MUCH more salacious accounts...
Alderaan delenda est
0

#11 User is offline   Echognome 

  • Deipnosophist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,386
  • Joined: 2005-March-22

Posted 2005-May-03, 12:13

hrothgar, on May 3 2005, 12:21 PM, said:

I've heard MUCH more salacious accounts...

Sounds juicy. Do share with the rest of us. I'm not bothered about veracity.
"Half the people you know are below average." - Steven Wright
0

#12 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2005-May-03, 13:56

You really want to hear gossip that is not only hearsay but 99 % unlikely to actual be accurate, and even if it was you would have no way to know if it was or not? I guess so given your last sentence, I can't say I understand why though lol.
0

#13 User is offline   Echognome 

  • Deipnosophist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,386
  • Joined: 2005-March-22

Posted 2005-May-04, 00:08

More fun to hear a story that's exciting and untrue than a boring one that's true. I'm also taking the mickey, so no worries there.
"Half the people you know are below average." - Steven Wright
0

#14 User is offline   mike777 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,817
  • Joined: 2003-October-07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2005-May-04, 23:12

mike777, on May 1 2005, 10:13 PM, said:

Very controversial hand from 1997 Bermuda Bowl final in Tunisia.

What is your bidding plan on most common follow-up?

AKJ62
AKJ8432
VOID
J

1C=3C=3D=5C
?

1C=16+

This was Hamman hand that brings up many issues.
Wolff hand and bidding is just as controversial if not more.

It has been suggested in print that this deal contributed to the breakup of the Hamman-Wolff partnership.

Bridge World, Barry Rigal, Howard Weinstein and Kokish have written and published research on some of the issues raised on this hand. A few recent forum threads have discussed some of the issues  as well.

Australian Bridge, 2005
Wolff's hand:
3
QT73
QJT8643
A

1C=3C=3D=5C
P==P=5D=P
5H=P=6H=P
P=P

Non strong clubbers complained.

KANTAR: 5H, PREFER ABSTAIN, PREFER 1H
JUSTIN HACKETT: 5H, NEVER PLAY STRONG CLUB, NEVER WILL
ALDER: 5NT PICK A SLAM WILL CONVERT 6D
LARRY COHEN: 5NT PICK A SLAM, WILL CONVERT 6D, THIS HAPPENS IN PRECISION
LAWRENCE: 6C, WILL CONVERT
KLINGER: 6C..HMM STRONG CLUB?
KAREN MCCALLUM: 6H, 6C CONVERT WILL NOT WORK
ED CHADWICK: 6H, DO NOT PLAY STRONG CLUB FOR EXACTLY THIS REASON
AL ROTH: 6H, IMPOSSIBLE SYSTEM
ROBSON: 6H, NEVER PLAYED A CLUB SYSTEM
DAVE BEAUCHAMP: PASS AND PULL TO 5H
FRANK STEWART: DBL. EXPECTING 800+
ERIC KOKISH: "Pass. From the Bermuda Bowl final in Hammanet, with Hamman-Wolff getting it wrong. In today's methods, pass would request a double, and pulling to a new suit would show flexibility while pulling to diamonds would be strong. Doubling 5C would be a weak diamond raise, allowing North to pass while knowing of support. In old-fashioned methods, pass suggests doubt and removing a double would be stronger that an immediate directional plunge. Not clear whether to pull to 6C and convert 6D to 6H, or to just pick a delayed level in hearts."
0

#15 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2005-May-05, 16:10

glad i was with hamman on this one with the pass :o I think wolff should bid 6C over 5H
0

#16 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2005-May-06, 08:08

I'm glad I reached 7 B)
BridgeGod: my personal website with interactive problems and articles
0
Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users