[wondermech]

Hi,

I am still quite new to bridge and I'm hoping to get some advice on better ways to bid the hand depicted below from the perspective of West:

---

All 4 players were playing SAYC, score system was IMPs.


In my case I was not sure how to respond and passed repeatedly. Due to a lot of interference by partner our opponents ended up in spades which was great for us, but I'm still not sure how to deal with this situation. Passing doesn't feel great since you know your partner has points, the hand likely has little value on defense unless South's 2♦ bid sticks, and if you have a good fit you might just be dropping a game. On the other hand with so few HCP I don't feel comfortable bidding past maybe the two-level without knowing more about partners distribution.

Is there a good way to display the shape of your hand, or get enough info about partner's to know you have no fit, without bidding too high? Or should I be content with passing here?

Was initially going to post this on the novice sub-forum, but then thought it fit better here since presumably other bidding systems might have different tools to deal with this situation.
Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I look forward to see what I could have done differently.

[awm]

On this hand I think your pass is perfect. The main reasons are the combination of: 1. Weak overall hand 2. Length on the suit opponents bid 3. Weak suit of your own and no fit for partner.

There are definitely hands with low points (but not the other features too) where you want to get in. In SAYC the usual way to do this is a negative double. For example on the same auction with:

♠QT9654
♥72
♦63
♣A84

Here you have a decent suit and short diamonds, so you really want to compete despite the lack of points. In SAYC bidding two spades shows more strength, so you double. If you double and bid spades later it shows a hand like this (long spades, want to compete, weaker than a direct bid).

There is a method popular on some places called negative free bids where a hand like this bids 2♠ directly (which is not forcing) and the stronger spades hands start with double or jump. Basically exactly the opposite of the standard treatment! This helps your results on bad hands but makes things awkward on good hands.

[Tramticket]

You are right to pass. You only have 6 points (all in your shorrt suits) and a misfit for partner.

South has made a terrible bid. Over-calling at the two level is very different from over-calling at the one level. If you give South a sixth diamond and an extra ace he will be close to the value to over-call. This should get North/South into trouble and it sounds as if they did get into trouble - although I have no idea how they settled on a spade contract.

I would expect North to bid 2NT after you pass 2♦ and be left to play there.

[apollo1201]

You pass is completely fine as you don't mind defending a diamand partscore by opponents.

Having low HCP strength, virtually no suit of your own and no fit for partner, it is probably better to pass and let partner reopen as he will do most of the times since he is probably short in D.

BTW, I can't find a word to describe South's bid... and figure out how they ended up in spades.

[The_Badger]

Hi wondermech. Welcome to the forum

It's sometimes very difficult generalizing to someone who's new to bridge how to bid certain hands and shapes, but a good rule to start with is that when you have plenty of the cards in the opponents' (potential) trump suit, and no good suit of your own and not many high card points that you don't get involved.

The best advice that I can give is to buy a bridge book that covers simple and straightforward bidding for beginners, and/or take lessons with a recognised bridge teacher. That will give you a core understanding of when to pass and when to bid.

[rmnka447]

Again, your passes are perfect.

After partner's opening bid and RHO's overcall, you know:

1) You don't have a fit with partner's long suit, and,
2) RHO is unlikely to have a good ♦ fit with his partner, and,
3) Partner is unlikely to have many diamonds with 10+ accounted for between you and RHO.

The hand looks like a misfit as the distributions of both red suits are likely skewed adversely for whoever declares. When you know that is the case, it's not likely that either black suit will break well either. In that case, it's often right to stay out of the auction or get out as quickly and cheaply as you can.

You don't have the values to compete freely over the 2 ♦ overcall. But let's consider and define the bids you might make if you did decide to make a call. A direct 2 ♠ call shows a good hand with 5+ spades and at least 11-12 HCP. A negative double shows about 8-10 HCP minimum at the 2 level. It implies no ability to penalize the opponents, length in the unbid suits (or length in 1 suit that you were unable to bid freely at the 2 level) and tends to show tolerance for partner's suit. Neither of these calls really fits you hand either. 2 ♠ shows a much stronger hand and it may be difficult to prevent partner from pushing too high. After a negative double, you have no good call if partner rebids 3 ♣, no matter what you do then you'll likely land in trouble. The only other call available is the pass you made. Sometimes good bidding is as much about staying out of bad contracts as finding good ones.

Now consider if you had the following hand instead ♠ 108xxx ♥ xx ♦ x ♣ AQxxx. Same points, but the distribution has been rearranged a little. Now consider what happens if partner replies to a negative double with this hand. If partner bids either Black suit, you're reasonably placed. If partner rebids ♥, you know you'll be playing at least a 7 card fit and possible have a ruffing value for partner in ♦. So an aggressive negative double with this hand is not bad. You don't quite have the normal values, but anywhere you end up is likely to be a decent place to play. However, with a singleton ♥ and doubleton ♦ in this hand, pass is again better.

Believe it or not, a pass also gives partner some valuable information. Your pass over 2 ♦ shows not enough values to make a call, a hand unsuited to any call, or a hand with a ♦ stack and values where you want to penalize a ♦ contract. As you progress as a bridge player, you'll learn that sometimes what an opponent doesn't call is as revealing as what they do call. In that regard, as a very fine player told me early on, "Pass is one of the most underrated calls in all of bridge."

BTW, your hand isn't worthless on defense. You hold ♣ AQ behind RHO opponent who presumably has a decent hand for a 2 level overcall. An AQ tenace is worth 1 1/2 Quick Tricks (defensive tricks). That's a lot more than most 6 point hands.

If, at IMPS, the bidding goes,

1 ♥ - 2 ♦ - P - P
DBL - P - ?

I'd probably pass with your hand as 2 ♦x making isn't a game and there's a reasonable chance of beating it. As the cards lie, it's possible to take as many as 9 tricks against 2 ♦x.

[wondermech]

Hi all,

Thanks so much for all of the replies, reading through the advice given has been a pleasure.

The reasoning given to support a pass here makes a lot of sense to me, and it's good to know that this situation has a "correct" answer.

I guess I was mostly concerned that partner might have a 4+♠ suit with decent values and a pretty good hand, but it seems that's certainly too much to hope for with only the information given. Additionally, as some mentioned, if partner has a good hand they can rebid anyway.

I knew that bidding at the two-level or a takeout double would be lying about my point count, but I did not know how to determine if my distribution was worth enough to allow bidding. rmnka447's remark:

Quote

The hand looks like a misfit as the distributions of both red suits are likely skewed adversely for whoever declares. When you know that is the case, it's not likely that either black suit will break well either. In that case, it's often right to stay out of the auction or get out as quickly and cheaply as you can.

seems to answer this question quite well, and the additional analysis showing that I have very few good rebids to partner's response were I to bid seems to reinforce this.

Seems I have some studying to do and thanks again for all of the responses, it was quite a surprise and is greatly appreciated!

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

assuming standard methods, your choice is between Pass and X,
given that you only have a single in partners suit and that
X is showing only 4+ spades (also having only 6HCP) I would go
with pass.

If partner makes a reopening X, as he should, since he is short
in their suit, pass again, if you beat 2D fine, if not 2Dx= is
not the end of the world.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Given that North has 11HCP (with the single Queen) he has to
find a bid, as mentioned, it will likely be 2NT.