[Stefan_O]

Robot-North did NOT have anything to say over 5♣ (was it forcing pass????),
then when balancing 5♠ gets DOUBLED,
it starts CUE-BIDDING!!!

And this was money-bridge!

Hand-viewer link

[Bbradley62]

I was going to make a snide comment about waiting for Lycier to justify GIB's bidding, but... Look at the explanations of 4♠ and 5♠... There's your culprit... Switch ♠K and ♠6, and what're the odds of making?

[Stefan_O]

Bbradley62, on 2016-May-03, 18:34, said:

Look at the explanations of 4♠ and 5♠... There's your culprit... Switch ♠K and ♠6, and what're the odds of making?

Yes, I know --- after all, it's a ROBOT

Otherwise, human sense might tell you the Double might mean something, and 5S Doubled or Redoubled might be a safer spot than 6S or 7S

But is it actually intended as forcing pass over 5C?

I was not aware Gib had such devices in high-level competition... and I've never seen a PASS alerted.

[Stefan_O]

Actually after the first Double to the left, 6S looked like it did have a chance --- until you see the bad breaks in both spades and hearts.

As the cards lie, I think, even 5S can be made only by taking the heart finesse (double dummy play).

[johnu]

6♠ is cold with a 2-1 trump break. I don't know why S didn't bid 5♦ over 5♣.

[gwnn]

I hate to be the tone police here but I don't think this forum is meant to ridicule robot bidding. The atmosphere here would be better if we just stuck to bug reports and at most making fun of each other, not the robots. Mean-spirited bug reports like this one will only beget more "How wonderful GIB is! " comments by certain apologists. Anyway this is just my personal take on the whole thing, no need to take it for anything more than it's worth.

[1eyedjack]

I would have thought that ridiculous bidding by robots (ie bidding that invites ridicule) *IS* a bug and, as such, on topic. North's pass over 5C and subsequent 6C bid do strike me as being hemipteral.

The one redeeming factor is that it is a highly unusual sequence, so correction of this particular set of bugs would be a low priority, unless their cause can be traced to something more wide-spread.

[gwnn]

It's definitely a problem worth reporting. I was just (slightly) objecting to the tone. Like I said, it's just a personal preference, feel free to ignore it.

[lycier]

Stefan_O, on 2016-May-03, 17:22, said:

Robot-North did NOT have anything to say over 5♣ (was it forcing pass????),
then when balancing 5♠ gets DOUBLED,
it starts CUE-BIDDING!!!

And this was money-bridge!

---

Bbradley62, on 2016-May-03, 18:34, said:

I was going to make a snide comment about waiting for Lycier to justify GIB's bidding, but... Look at the explanations of 4♠ and 5♠... There's your culprit... Switch ♠K and ♠6, and what're the odds of making?

Hi Stefan_0 :
Good topic, but a great pity you are big wrong. I disagree with opinions.

Hi Bbradley :

What you said is really interesting, is all well and good.I would accept your demand and I try my best.Thanks.


In fact, I am same as everyone,only a Gib fans, for this hand, I have no right to get more informations in detail.

First issue :
I dislike " insane", I know the meanings of insane you said is very stupid or crazy,but this term is very bad, its synonyms is close to the attack of mental ill.
I meant that please give Gibs programmers some dignity.
Any ideas?

Second issue :
All sorts of hands with abnormal distributions usually haven't some reasonable logic thinkings. This is a basic knowledge of bridge, also a tough problem, it is bridge charm.
Now let's see how this story came about.

At first step, it is human to become crazy instead of Gibs.
its normal sequence goes :

---

Result: 4♠S=

However west Human suddently became crazy, why didn't west open 1♣ or 1♥?
Here, I would ask everyone two questions?
Would you agree with opening 3♣ ?
Would you think opening 3♣ is clever?
If your answer is Yes, Yes, now I would take a good example to show my excellent skills.

---

Result : 4♥N=
Am I clever?

BTY,if it opens normally, you will see how clever Gib's decision is.

---

Result : 5♥N-1
How bravooo Gibs !!!

Third issue :
Look at the "OP' hand :

---

Who is crazy? Whose fault?
After crazy opening 3♣, it is normal for north Gib to make takeout,ok? North Gib never become insane ! East Gib makes a preemptive raise to 4♣, very good, never become insane !
Suddently south Human become insane, bid 4♠ to show 5+♠,10+hcp, 11-16TPs.
And then Human become insane again, west human who open preemptive 3♣ speak twice ! However north Gib still keep calm and silent !!!
Suddently Human become insane again, south human hold too weak hand and speak twice and bid 5♠ to show 5+♠,10+hcp, 11-16TPs. In this point, if north Gib which hold a strong hand still keep silent instead of probe for gland slam, assume 7♠ can be made, you all will say Gib is a silly robot !
So my conclusion :
It just is human to become insane, obvously it just is human's fault !!!

Dear Stefan, I am a layman on programming, may I ask a serious question ?
How would you let the Gib programmers change human's insane mind?

Would you tell me?
Here, I would thank Bbradly again, I intend I am willing to keep silent if some fake expert is making malicious trouble in this forum.

BTW, here I would ask a question : after 3♣, what's the best auction for North Gib?
If you have ability to answer my question at once, I would respect you from now on because you really know Gib CC in detail.
( Of course, I know the exact auction. )
Alert Gibs normally go :

---

[Stefan_O]

johnu, on 2016-May-04, 02:26, said:

6♠ is cold with a 2-1 trump break. I don't know why S didn't bid 5♦ over 5♣.

Yes, the unnamed human South I can tell you... he wanted of course to bid 5♦ on the second round to give pd a choice between suits,
-- the only fly in the ointment was that 5♦ had a description "cuebid" rather than "natural" associated with it.
Therefore, he was under the impression such action might lead to undesired consequences --- little did he know....

[iandayre]

Two things you should learn to be more successful bidding with GIB:

1) It doubles based on HCP - not trump tricks. In fact you will often find GIB, having subsided in an auction and having had an opponent bid a suit where it has a big stack, now bid its own side's suit again. It often appears from a human perspective that GIB believes the opponents' bidding more than what it sees in its own hand.

2) GIB never plays its partner for taking a sacrifice. If you bid again when not forced, it thinks you are stronger. And while I can't say this with 100% certainty, I don't think it plays forcing passes unless you are below game, and forced to game. I have seen it pass in an auction such as 2C - P - 2D - 2S (overcall), P by opener, passed out.


I clearly understand that these are severe weaknesses but that is where we are. Unfortunately it is apparently difficult to impossible to program in such general concepts.

I also acknowledge that sometimes, as here, you as GIB's partner have an impossible task as far as sensibly reaching the best contract is concerned.

[johnu]

Stefan_O, on 2016-May-04, 11:07, said:

Yes, the unnamed human South I can tell you... he wanted of course to bid 5♦ on the second round to give pd a choice between suits,
-- the only fly in the ointment was that 5♦ had a description "cuebid" rather than "natural" associated with it.
Therefore, he was under the impression such action might lead to undesired consequences --- little did he know....

Yet another problem for the GIB programmers to fix. 5♦ isn't natural

[johnu]

iandayre, on 2016-May-04, 13:48, said:

2) GIB never plays its partner for taking a sacrifice. If you bid again when not forced, it thinks you are stronger. And while I can't say this with 100% certainty, I don't think it plays forcing passes unless you are below game, and forced to game. I have seen it pass in an auction such as 2C - P - 2D - 2S (overcall), P by opener, passed out.

Also, sometimes you have to bid assuming partner has their fair share of the outstanding points. GIB then assumes you are bidding with game in hand with partner having a yarborough and assigns a value of 25-30 pts to the hand. GIB then bids slam with the points that you are already assuming they have when you made your last bid.

[Stefan_O]

gwnn, on 2016-May-04, 02:41, said:

I hate to be the tone police here but I don't think this forum is meant to ridicule robot bidding...

Yes, gwnn, point taken

I generally fare pretty well with Gib as a pd -- much more satisfactory/entertaining than playing with random pickup pds, who will usually mess up every second board or so.

Only, when stuff like this happen -- at the same time both a bit upsetting and hilarious, it may sometimes be hard to restrain oneself... sorry -- I will try to consider your advice next time

[Stefan_O]

lycier, on 2016-May-04, 06:46, said:

Good topic, but a great pity you are big wrong. I disagree with opinions.

Hi Lycier,
Yes, you seem to disagree with pretty much everything --- so I will not take it personally

[Stefan_O]

iandayre, on 2016-May-04, 13:48, said:

Two things you should learn to be more successful bidding with GIB:

1) It doubles based on HCP - not trump tricks. In fact you will often find GIB, having subsided in an auction and having had an opponent bid a suit where it has a big stack, now bid its own side's suit again. It often appears from a human perspective that GIB believes the opponents' bidding more than what it sees in its own hand.

2) GIB never plays its partner for taking a sacrifice. If you bid again when not forced, it thinks you are stronger. And while I can't say this with 100% certainty, I don't think it plays forcing passes unless you are below game, and forced to game. I have seen it pass in an auction such as 2C - P - 2D - 2S (overcall), P by opener, passed out.

Thanks iandayre,
Yes, that seems like useful knowledge.

[Stefan_O]

lycier, on 2016-May-04, 06:46, said:

BTW, here I would ask a question : after 3♣, what's the best auction for North Gib?

---

I don't think the Double over 3♣ is wrong -- generally you can double with almost any distribution 19+hcp, since you can then come back with your longest suit next round.
The problem on this specific hand, of course, is that South with a bit different hand might jump to 5♦ over the Double, expecting North to have a least secondary support in diamonds -- that would be awkward to say the least....

But on the bidding in your diagram, I think it's wrong from North to pass 4♣ -- with North's hand it must be almost certain that N/S has game in one of the majors.
North should rebid 4♥ on the second round, and South presumably correct to 4♠ -- hopefully that's not a cue-bid

[cloa513]

lycier, on 2016-May-04, 06:46, said:

Hi Stefan_0 :
Good topic, but a great pity you are big wrong. I disagree with opinions.

Hi Bbradley :

What you said is really interesting, is all well and good.I would accept your demand and I try my best.Thanks.


In fact, I am same as everyone,only a Gib fans, for this hand, I have no right to get more informations in detail.

First issue :
I dislike " insane", I know the meanings of insane you said is very stupid or crazy,but this term is very bad, its synonyms is close to the attack of mental ill.
I meant that please give Gibs programmers some dignity.
Any ideas?

Second issue :
All sorts of hands with abnormal distributions usually haven't some reasonable logic thinkings. This is a basic knowledge of bridge, also a tough problem, it is bridge charm.
Now let's see how this story came about.

At first step, it is human to become crazy instead of Gibs.
its normal sequence goes :

---

Result: 4♠S=

However west Human suddently became crazy, why didn't west open 1♣ or 1♥?
Here, I would ask everyone two questions?
Would you agree with opening 3♣ ?
Would you think opening 3♣ is clever?
If your answer is Yes, Yes, now I would take a good example to show my excellent skills.

---

Result : 4♥N=
Am I clever?

BTY,if it opens normally, you will see how clever Gib's decision is.

---

Result : 5♥N-1
How bravooo Gibs !!!

Third issue :
Look at the "OP' hand :

---

Who is crazy? Whose fault?
After crazy opening 3♣, it is normal for north Gib to make takeout,ok? North Gib never become insane ! East Gib makes a preemptive raise to 4♣, very good, never become insane !
Suddently south Human become insane, bid 4♠ to show 5+♠,10+hcp, 11-16TPs.
And then Human become insane again, west human who open preemptive 3♣ speak twice ! However north Gib still keep calm and silent !!!
Suddently Human become insane again, south human hold too weak hand and speak twice and bid 5♠ to show 5+♠,10+hcp, 11-16TPs. In this point, if north Gib which hold a strong hand still keep silent instead of probe for gland slam, assume 7♠ can be made, you all will say Gib is a silly robot !
So my conclusion :
It just is human to become insane, obvously it just is human's fault !!!

Dear Stefan, I am a layman on programming, may I ask a serious question ?
How would you let the Gib programmers change human's insane mind?

Would you tell me?
Here, I would thank Bbradly again, I intend I am willing to keep silent if some fake expert is making malicious trouble in this forum.

BTW, here I would ask a question : after 3♣, what's the best auction for North Gib?
If you have ability to answer my question at once, I would respect you from now on because you really know Gib CC in detail.
( Of course, I know the exact auction. )
Alert Gibs normally go :

---

The person at fault is the bid designer- its absurd that 4S requires so much in response to the double - totally at odds with reasonable competitive bidding practice, then North GIB for re-evaluating its hand as being better after initially passing in response- its not the final bid that's insane just the process to get there.

[lycier]

Stefan_O, on 2016-May-04, 16:56, said:

Hi Lycier,
Yes, you seem to disagree with pretty much everything --- so I will not take it personally

Hi Stefan :
No, you seem to agree with pretty much everything --- so I would better take it personally .

You would only say yes to others except me in your dictionary - that's to say your reply always is yes as long as others' replies are about complaint about Gibs,why? I am very difficult to understand your behavious...

Now I would take a real example for you.
- You would better renew to visit this thread, its link :
Does not bid 4♠

- Now please you look at your reply: same Yes reply - " I agree ".
You pretty agree with Gib bidding 4s in competion.
May I ask you a serious question?
Wouldn't you find the Gib decision is very smart?
If I also agree with your "Yes" opinion, I am afraid Stephen Tu who is a professional programmer and a expert of the bridge game, including Bbradly62 would laugh at me for sure.
If there is a obvious mistake in my reply, Stephen Tu would help me and point out my mistake, I am very glad and lucky that he has no reply in this thread.

Very surprised, whenever I reply " No', some people often become unhappy, even sb is looking for my trouble . In a word, as long as complaining about Gibs, whatever it is correct or wrong, always is welcome, and many readers also regard it as a normal matter.
But I am unwilling to do such, No,No,No.

[lycier]

As a Gib fans, all of us love and care about Gibs, my passion never be less than any bbo fans on this forum.