[scarletv]

Yesterday in the club

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What should be priority and how do you bid?

• stoppers in ♠
  
• ask for stoppers in ♦
  
• show 4-card ♥
  
• show ♣ fit invitational/forcing
  
• penalty (not really an option with this hand)

Edit: System of N/S is 5card major similar to 2/1 strong NT 5533

[ahydra]

What's NS's system? I'll assume 2/1, strong NT, 5542.

Sorry to say this but I really don't like X the first time. You said yourself penalty was not an option, but X of a 2-suiter is normally "penalty interest in one or both suits" or similar. Prefer something like 2S or 3D, one of which should show a good raise in clubs - your hand is huge, almost a slam force. (Given your spade holding and the opps' diamond bidding at this vul, even if he has a weak NT partner is almost certain to have a fit in either of the rounded suits; he's also likely to have three of the cards you need - ♣AK, ♥AQ - for a slam, and may even have all four.)

You need to encourage slam at this point, so consider things like 4D, 5NT (pick a slam) or just blast 6C. The problem is it's going to be difficult for partner to figure out what you've got after the initial choice of X.

ahydra

[creatbid]

When 2♦ showed ♠, the double shouldn't be negative. And N had no way to show his 4♥. The only way to bid N's great hand was cue bids to try 3nt, 5♣ or even slams

[gszes]

Is it possible partner might think you wish to penalize diamonds when you first x?? I think so (in this case east might have saved your side from disaster) saves you) but do you really want to risk playing 2d x?? ackkk so to begin with x is a huge risk. I think a simple 2s bid to begin with (checking to see if p has a dia stop) might be amuch better idea. If p cannot come up with a dia stop (or maybe in this case x 3d) our hand becomes a rock crusher. We are still not sure just how much our combined assets are worth and taking it slow might easily be the best approach.

Given the original x (we have luckily survived) but still face the same problems as before just how good are we? IMHO start with 3s which should show spades stopped and asking for dia stop for 3n. Do not expect much since p did not x 3d to begin with). The 3s bid is mainly to help gauge if p has any wasted dia honors before we decide how high to go.

[scarletv]

Double in the first round was meant as penalty interest in one or both suits and strength. It was not intended as penalty for 2♦.

[Cyberyeti]

 scarletv, on 2016-February-12, 14:50, said:

Double in the first round was meant as penalty interest in one or both suits and strength. It was not intended as penalty for 2♦.

What would X of 3♦ have been by partner ?

[creatbid]

 gszes, on 2016-February-12, 14:44, said:

Is it possible partner might think you wish to penalize diamonds when you first x?? I think so (in this case east might have saved your side from disaster) saves you) but do you really want to risk playing 2d x?? ackkk so to begin with x is a huge risk. I think a simple 2s bid to begin with (checking to see if p has a dia stop) might be amuch better idea. If p cannot come up with a dia stop (or maybe in this case x 3d) our hand becomes a rock crusher. We are still not sure just how much our combined assets are worth and taking it slow might easily be the best approach.

If you would had read former replys especially ahydra's, it would seem that you were just satirizing scarletv's X and plagiarizing ahydra's idea. If not you should have read former replys before showing your comments. You did make me more confused of how the post between ahydra's and mine disappeared.
But I also strongly suggest 2♠ and 3♦ be the 1st responce. Since both of them are good raises, S feels free to try a new suit(♠/♥) for a better fit of N-S. Moreover, 2♠ will be better discription than 3♦. By 3♦ N-S may lose 3nt even with ♦stoppers on N. But 2♠ shows ♠stoppers, likely stopped♥, good raise on♣ and asks for ♦stoppers. X tells much less about N's hand, and so does showing 4+♥.

[echo25]

I would bid 4c/d (IMPs/matchpoints), then 5d as XRKCB and bid 6 or 7. If partner chose hearts after 4d bid, I would also ask Hoyt to check for the king of club.

I don't really understand your question about asking a diamond stopper. This is an obvious hand to play a suit contract, not NT.

[guinnypoo]

 echo25, on 2016-February-13, 02:04, said:

I would bid 4c/d (IMPs/matchpoints), then 5d as XRKCB and bid 6 or 7. If partner chose hearts after 4d bid, I would also ask Hoyt to check for the king of club.

I don't really understand your question about asking a diamond stopper. This is an obvious hand to play a suit contract, not NT.

I think the idea is that if partner doesn't have any diamond stoppers, then it makes our void more valuable because our partner has more points in the suits we care about, and the opponents have more points in the suit we have a void in. It makes slam far more likely. Partner has to have close to 13 points (if he was particularly shapely he would have bid again) and if they're not in diamonds, then your side should have almost all the honors in the other 3 suits.

[iandayre]

It's a valid discussion as to what North's first call should have been. But it can't be changed now. I find it hard to imagine anything other than a 4D cuebid at this point.

[gszes]

 scarletv, on 2016-February-12, 14:50, said:

Double in the first round was meant as penalty interest in one or both suits and strength. It was not intended as penalty for 2♦.

when the opps show dia + spades the x can be either. The problem is partner has to decide by looking at their hand and they may all too readily decide it is diamonds.

[gszes]

 creatbid, on 2016-February-13, 00:47, said:

If you would had read former replys especially ahydra's, it would seem that you were just satirizing scarletv's X and plagiarizing ahydra's idea. If not you should have read former replys before showing your comments. You did make me more confused of how the post between ahydra's and mine disappeared.
But I also strongly suggest 2♠ and 3♦ be the 1st responce. Since both of them are good raises, S feels free to try a new suit(♠/♥) for a better fit of N-S. Moreover, 2♠ will be better discription than 3♦. By 3♦ N-S may lose 3nt even with ♦stoppers on N. But 2♠ shows ♠stoppers, likely stopped♥, good raise on♣ and asks for ♦stoppers. X tells much less about N's hand, and so does showing 4+♥.

I indeed cared not for the original x but instead of just not liking it I tried to explain WHY (missing from the other posts). I also specifically suggested 2s (not some kind of vague reference to a cue bid) as a great route to begin to not only explore 3n but to find out if opener had any wasted dia values before deciding to go ballistic. I did not care for 3d
and strongly felt 2s was the way to go. When lho showed spades and dia the two suits suddenly became worry suits for NT and since we had no easy path to discover hearts our next best bet was nt (even if we were going to suggest a club slam over 3n). If your complaint was I failed to give either poster credit for partial explanation I can understand that but it will surely take up a ton more space if I have to read and credit every single line (and what of previous posts on similar topics?) that someone else types that happens to coincide with my opinion:)))))))))))))

[Caitlynne]

I can't answer the question primarily because I disagree with the original negative double. I think an immediate 3♦, establishing support for partner's club suit, would have been far superior; the absolute #1 priority in a competitive auction is to establish whether there is a fit with partner. What's more, 3♦ not only shows your strength (while the negative double does not), but it also does not preclude partner bidding hearts or spades which would reveal a second fit.

As it is, now you are guessing at the FOUR level. To show your club fit you must force to the FIVE level. Even if you bid 4♦, what will you do if partner bids 4♥ or 4♠? You'll be guessing again!

Lesson: Confirm a fit immediately in a competitive auction!

[zillahandp]

What will get the msg across best? Maybe 4d bur if i dont know p 6c only 4loers assumong p playing acol and club s four cad suit ,if not blame the system.

[lycier]

The original double is really asking for trouble, actually this double can't solve the problems of follow-up perfectly. So the first step is cuebid 2♠ cheapest instead of double.