[kenberg]

cherdano, on 2016-July-19, 21:39, said:

I think Melania Trump wrote this part by herself. No professional speech writer would make such a mistake, and noone else in this campaign would look for inspiration from Michelle Obama.

Of course, that doesn't let the Trump campaign off the hook. A normal campaign would thoroughly vet the speech beforehand, and otherwise try some damage control instead of denial afterwards.

Unfortunately professional speechwriters do cut corners. Many years back Joe Biden gave a speech that was cribbed form some British pol, an MP I think. It led to the following, which perhaps will make it past the censors.


Eisenhower, Nixon, Kennedy and Biden were on the Titanic when it hit the iceberg.

Eisenhower: To the life boats, women and children first.
Nixon: Blank the women and children.
Kennedy: Good idea, but is there time?
Biden: Good idea, but is there time?

[kenberg]

While waiting for the censors to dump my previous post, and perhaps dump me, I will say a little more.

We all appreciate people who speak for themselves, but the spouse of a high level candidate is often in a real bind. Early in the campaign season I read that Marco Rubio's wife hoped he would not run, and this was based on the life she wanted for herself. I can very much understand that. As to now, I can easily imagine Melania telling Donald that this was not what she thought she was signing up for when they got married, but if someone supplies her with a speech she will do her best.

I didn't listen to it, but plagiarism aside I gather it set a new standard for banality.

What could have been good is something such as:

"My husband is the candidate, and if elected my husband will be the president. I am not here to tell you you get two for the price of one. But it is natural for voters to want to know something about the woman who would be the First Lady, and I have come to tell you something about myself" And then she could do just that. No great secrets, no great plans, just a brief summary of who she is and how she would approach her role as First Lady.

But that would require honesty and substance. The Donald would never allow it. For all their wealth, I would not wish to be in her shoes.

[Zelandakh]

kenberg, on 2016-July-20, 06:21, said:

What could have been good is something such as:

The problem there is that DT needs female voters, Ken, and the only way he has managed to connect with them so far is through his wife and daughter. I assume that giving Melania a prominent speech slot was designed to bring in their interest for the convention. It seems fairly clear that if she is unable to bring in this vote for her husband, the Republicans will not be able to get enough EVs.

[kenberg]

Zelandakh, on 2016-July-20, 06:49, said:

The problem there is that DT needs female voters, Ken, and the only way he has managed to connect with them so far is through his wife and daughter. I assume that giving Melania a prominent speech slot was designed to bring in their interest for the convention. It seems fairly clear that if she is unable to bring in this vote for her husband, the Republicans will not be able to get enough EVs.

But this attracts women to his cause?
Jackie Kennedy attracted women, and, of course, men. She was good looking and stylish, sure, but she could also address, traveling on her own, crowds in Latin America in the language of her audience and speak with substance. Putting someone up on stage to read a partially plagiarized speech with no substance is demeaning. I have a tough time thinking of this as a draw for women voters. Not in 2016, but really not in the time of my long lost youth either.

After the speech Donald said "I am so proud of her" If I said that after Becky got through a speech someone else had written for her, she would throw something at me. OK, not really. But I don't think she would thank me for the compliment.

[Winstonm]

How many of us are appalled - indeed, even a bit frightened - by the prospects that this group of people (Republicans attending the convention) may find a way to gain power?

As to the Republican convention, I think any registered Republican who stands up and says - no way can I be a party to this type of thinking - should be highly praised for his or her integrity. It is OK to have differing opinions on how to move forward; there should be no tolerance for a backward-looking platform of hate, anger, and intolerance.

Judgement Day is indeed coming - November 8, 2016.

[barmar]

kenberg, on 2016-July-20, 07:12, said:

After the speech Donald said "I am so proud of her" If I said that after Becky got through a speech someone else had written for her, she would throw something at me. OK, not really. But I don't think she would thank me for the compliment.

After the speech Donald also pointed at her boobs, like a college guy showing off the hot chick he got a date with to his friends. Or maybe he was just silently confirming the rumors that she has breast implants, as if to say "Look at those, I paid for them.".

[kenberg]

barmar, on 2016-July-20, 08:47, said:

After the speech Donald also pointed at her boobs, like a college guy showing off the hot chick he got a date with to his friends. Or maybe he was just silently confirming the rumors that she has breast implants, as if to say "Look at those, I paid for them.".

It seems I missed a lot, a lot of something, by not watching much of the show so far.

Hillary was speaking and compared the first night of the r convention with The Wizard of Oz. Not really quite right, I think. I like old movies, and early on in this campaign I was reminded of Born Yesterday. Broderick Crawford plays the corrupt and self-centered Harry Brock, visiting Washington with his girlfriend Billie Dawn to peddle some influence. Part of his problem is getting Billie to play her role.

Neither movie really fits, Trump is beyond a script writer's imagination.

[cherdano]

kenberg, on 2016-July-20, 05:58, said:

Unfortunately professional speechwriters do cut corners. Many years back Joe Biden gave a speech that was cribbed form some British pol, an MP I think.

You know, sometimes things change. Everyone professionally writing speeches for US politicians is aware of the Biden episode. They know that being caught of plagiarism is the one way in their profession to get 1. fired, and 2. never hired again.
They also know that any competent campaign uses freely available plagiarism detecting software, so.the risk of getting caught would be extremely high.

[kenberg]

cherdano, on 2016-July-20, 09:45, said:

You know, sometimes things change. Everyone professionally writing speeches for US politicians is aware of the Biden episode. They know that being caught of plagiarism is the one way in their profession to get 1. fired, and 2. never hired again.
They also know that any competent campaign uses freely available plagiarism detecting software, so.the risk of getting caught would be extremely high.

Yes. Could be.

It is difficult for me to imagine anyone involved in the Trump campaign thinking "I think I will go crib some stuff from Michelle Obama's speech" . Lifting from Atlas Shrugged, maybe. But from Obama?

Anyway, someone did. My money would be on the speechwriters because while it is hard to imagine them doing so I find it even harder to imagine Melania Trump doing so. Not because I think she is so high minded, I really know nothing about her one way or the other, but I can't imagine why she would bother.

So many things with Trump are so bizarre that rational explanation is impossible. Last night I was watching for a bit and they announced that the next speaker would be a woman whose son was killed in Benghazi. I turned off the tv. I would rather be waterboarded than watch that. But then I read in the morning paper that while she was speaking, Trump called in to the broadcast booth so they cut away from her to hear what he had to say. He went on about how Kasich wasn't attending the convention because he, DT, beat him so badly.

This is beyond belief. You get a mother who has lost her son to go on national television to boost your chances, and then you phone in and cut her off to talk about Kasich? I do not understand it at the political level, I do not understand it at the personal level, I just do not understand it.

I have known people, probably we all have, whose behavior seems hard to explain. But nothing like this. A guy could go nuts trying to explain the actions of Trump and those around him.

So I don't know who wrote her speech. I don't understand the whole phenomenon. And it is not just me.

[PassedOut]

Melania Trump’s Speechwriter Takes Responsibility for Lifted Remarks

Quote

“In working with Melania on her recent first lady speech, we discussed many people who inspired her and messages she wanted to share with the American people,” Ms. McIver wrote.

“A person she has always liked is Michelle Obama,” she added.

“Over the phone,” Ms. Trump “read me some passages from Mrs. Obama’s speech as examples. I wrote them down and later included some of the phrasing in the draft that ultimately became the final speech. I did not check Mrs. Obama’s speeches. This was my mistake and I feel terrible for the chaos I have caused Melania and the Trumps as well as to Mrs. Obama. No harm was meant.”

So it was a tribute to Michelle Obama after all. Could have said that right away.

[kenberg]

PassedOut, on 2016-July-20, 11:36, said:

Melania Trump's Speechwriter Takes Responsibility for Lifted Remarks


So it was a tribute to Michelle Obama after all. Could have said that right away.

The irony is absolutely gorgeous.

Just think, she could have started her speech with "Michelle Obama has been a fine First Lady and if my husband becomes president I will seek her advice". Five goons would be dragging her off the stage, but Donald would pay their legal fees. Or promise to pay their legal fees, which is not quite the same thing.

Good going, Melania! I'm so proud of you.

Is it November? Are we there yet?

[Zelandakh]

kenberg, on 2016-July-20, 07:12, said:

But this attracts women to his cause?

Probably not, but that is a failure of the campaign. Up to now they have apparently done a good job on her material based on the polls and focus groups. This is just one of a number of moving parts in the DT campaign that they have to get right for him to be able to win.

kenberg, on 2016-July-20, 09:01, said:

Hillary was speaking and compared the first night of the r convention with The Wizard of Oz.

What are the chances that HC gets compared with the Wicked Witch of the West tomorrow? Seems like a decent way of his campaign using it to their advantage. They get to plant a laughable and negative image without having been responsible for starting the negativity.

[Winstonm]

kenberg, on 2016-July-20, 09:01, said:

It seems I missed a lot, a lot of something, by not watching much of the show so far.

Hillary was speaking and compared the first night of the r convention with The Wizard of Oz. Not really quite right, I think. I like old movies, and early on in this campaign I was reminded of Born Yesterday. Broderick Crawford plays the corrupt and self-centered Harry Brock, visiting Washington with his girlfriend Billie Dawn to peddle some influence. Part of his problem is getting Billie to play her role.

Neither movie really fits, Trump is beyond a script writer's imagination.

More like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory - if the Chocolate Factory had gone bankrupt 4 times - or mayby A Clockwork Orange?

Quote

“What I do I do because I like to do.”
― Anthony Burgess, A Clockwork Orange

[kenberg]

Zelandakh, on 2016-July-20, 13:33, said:

Probably not, but that is a failure of the campaign. Up to now they have apparently done a good job on her material based on the polls and focus groups. This is just one of a number of moving parts in the DT campaign that they have to get right for him to be able to win.


What are the chances that HC gets compared with the Wicked Witch of the West tomorrow? Seems like a decent way of his campaign using it to their advantage. They get to plant a laughable and negative image without having been responsible for starting the negativity.

Yes, she seems to have opened up the door to such a comparison. With Barack Obama as the cowardly lion. We will have to work on casting the tin man. If I only had a heart.


I just had the internet instruct me on how to correctly say Melania, so that shows how closely I have been following her part in this. Ultimately, it's not a big deal. It seems reasonable to accept it was carelessness more than anything else, and there are far greater reasons to reject this candidate.

Follow-up. I took a bit of time to read a little, not much, about her. I think that I like her. She could be a good First Lady. Now if she could just arrange to have a different husband.


I knew, and for that matter I know, very little about who Trump has been married to. I have had no reason to care. But, as he is running for president, I figured I should learn a bit. Not that it much matters, but I expect I could like her.

[barmar]

kenberg, on 2016-July-20, 14:21, said:

Follow-up. I took a bit of time to read a little, not much, about her. I think that I like her. She could be a good First Lady. Now if she could just arrange to have a different husband.

Yes, from what I've heard, she seems to be a very successful, intelligent woman. I want to wonder why she hooked up with Trump, but I guess she could see that he would give her a good life. Whatever his faults, he's still extremely rich and successful, so it's not hard to see why someone would hitch their coattails to him.

And who knows, maybe what he lacks in hand size he makes up for down below.

[kenberg]

barmar, on 2016-July-20, 20:31, said:

Yes, from what I've heard, she seems to be a very successful, intelligent woman. I want to wonder why she hooked up with Trump, but I guess she could see that he would give her a good life. Whatever his faults, he's still extremely rich and successful, so it's not hard to see why someone would hitch their coattails to him.

And who knows, maybe what he lacks in hand size he makes up for down below.

What a woman might find attractive in a husband is different from what the rest of us find attractive in a president. Sister Sarah married Sky Masterson. It happens. Marian Paroo married Prof Harold Hill. Becky married me.

[billw55]

Winstonm, on 2016-July-20, 08:25, said:

As to the Republican convention, I think any registered Republican who stands up and says - no way can I be a party to this type of thinking - should be highly praised for his or her integrity.

So will you now praise Ted Cruz for his integrity?

OK, he didn't really say that, but he sent a pretty clear message.

[Winstonm]

billw55, on 2016-July-21, 06:32, said:

So will you now praise Ted Cruz for his integrity?

OK, he didn't really say that, but he sent a pretty clear message.

I was talking about humans.

On a more serious note, it occurred to me that it may be in everyone's best interest to have a third-party candidate such as Cruz in order to allow Republicans to vote - just not for Trump - and without voting for Hillary.

[kenberg]

I tuned in fairly early. Someone from Florida, or thereabouts, was speaking. I turned it off. Later I came back, catching the last part of the speech of one of the Trump sons, and then Gingrich and Pence. So I missed Cruz. I'm not sure what to make of it. How should a non-supportive speech be compared with the non-attendance of many?

For Trump, I doubt that it matters whether Cruz had stayed away or, as happened, came, spoke, and advised people to vote their conscience. The message is the same. For the future of Ted Cruz, it could go either way. I suppose Cruz supporters will see it as courageous, Cruz detractors will see it as treason.

Gingrinch and Pence were intense, especially Gingrich. They said a lot, but they seemed to be talking about a candidate who in no way resembles Donald Trump. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say tonight. Here is a possibility, but I do not expect it. "Fellow Americans, we all know that the primaries are a pile of crap.I did what I had to do, and it worked. Now I will begin in earnest to tell you what I really think."

But this is a fantasy. We have seen Trump, and he has already said what he really thinks.

[Winstonm]

Quote

In an interview with The New York Times, Trump said the United States shouldn't automatically come to the defense of fellow NATO members if they are attacked unless those countries have paid their bills to the alliance.

Or, I suppose, unless those NATO members had filed for bankruptcy protection....