[olegru]

 Al_U_Card, on 2016-June-28, 17:04, said:

Easy peasy. Hil is a liar, a crook and a hypocrite. DT is just a liar and a crook.

Hit the spot.

[Al_U_Card]

 olegru, on 2016-June-30, 09:33, said:

Hit the spot.

Politics is ALWAYS a choice between the lesser of evils...

[Cyberyeti]

 Al_U_Card, on 2016-June-30, 17:25, said:

Politics is ALWAYS a choice between the lesser of evils...

Until either Satan or Cthulhu stands on the "Why vote for the lesser evil" ticket

[Al_U_Card]

 Cyberyeti, on 2016-June-30, 17:27, said:

Until either Satan or Cthulhu stands on the "Why vote for the lesser evil" ticket

Aren't both of them Trump supporters? lol

[Zelandakh]

 Al_U_Card, on 2016-July-01, 05:56, said:

Aren't both of them Trump supporters? lol

I suspect Cthulhu was the "monster" under his bed as a child, which he gazed upon once too often. Satan is merely a business partner. One wonders which of them will get the better deal at the end.

[barmar]

 ggwhiz, on 2016-June-30, 08:57, said:

Obama was in town yesterday and in his speech to the Canadian Parliament made a couple of veiled references to Trump but the press conference had all 3 Amigos pretty much savage him without naming him of course.

This is the first time ever that Canadian and Mexican leaders have weighed in like this in an American election year. Did anyone down there notice?

Most of the airplay down here has been about the funky 3-way handshake.

https://embed.thegua...handshake-video

[olegru]

 Al_U_Card, on 2016-June-30, 17:25, said:

Politics is ALWAYS a choice between the lesser of evils...

Not sure who said "Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil."

I believe both Satan or Cthulhu will insist they are lesser evil, especially if we have to choose between them two.

[Al_U_Card]

 olegru, on 2016-July-01, 10:35, said:

Not sure who said "Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil."

I believe both Satan or Cthulhu will insist they are lesser evil, especially if we have to choose between them two.

Perhaps if we consider them to be a sort of unholy trinity? DT makes a good front man until he needs to be sacrificed....and so on, and so on.

Can't expect Trump to change his ways or learn some new tricks (like many of his predecessors) but he appears to be what we would get, if elected. The "Ugly American" would have a face and 'do.

[Al_U_Card]

From a great post at Climate etc. we have this explanation:

"Looking at these political positions from the perspective of worldviews, we see that Sanders appears to rally people with predominantly postmodern worldviews. The postmodern worldview arose in response to the shortcomings of the modern worldview, and therefore tends to be critical toward its model of society: its (narrow) ideas of progress, the frequently materialist and reductionist orientation of modern science, the risks and environmental impacts of its technologies, and the injustices of (global) capitalism.

Trump seems to mobilize people mainly with a mix of, or bridging between, traditional and modern worldviews.

At the same time, Trump exhibits the kind of authoritative leadership, winner mentality, attitude of disciplining through punishment, simplistic solutions and moral hierarchy that may strongly appeal to people with a traditional worldview. Some of the more modern values that Trump emphasizes, as well as symbolizes, are business success, wealth, achievement, freedom, power, and individual self-sufficiency and responsibility.

(Clinton seems to represent an intermediate position between these two, appealing to people with mostly modern worldviews, and bridging to postmodern ones.)

While the postmodern worldview only really emerged about half a century ago, it has been steadily growing ever since, extending its influence far beyond the academic and artistic elites. Older worldviews therefore tend to ‘die off’ with older generations, while newer worldviews tend to come into being with newer generations. This explains the disproportional support from younger people for Sanders, in comparison with what (a much more modernist) Clinton has been able to generate.

Although much has been said to explain the rise of Trump, one reason that stands out is the ways in which the more traditional (bridging to modern) oriented segments of society have been feeling encroached upon, and threatened by, the emergence of more postmodern views and values. So in some way, it is precisely the widespread rise of the postmodern value-complex that may partially explain the powerful conservative backlash that we see now, as exemplified by the Trump-movement.

However, more important than any typology of worldviews is the reflexive attitude a worldview-perspective supports. Worldviews are a fundamental part of individuals’ group identities, and people often react as strongly to perceived threats to these social identities as they do to defend themselves against personal attacks. We see this in the heat and emotionality of our political debates! However, once we become more aware of our (naturally partial and biased) worldviews, we start to see them in a larger context of a wider range of perspectives and values. We realize that there are also other worldviews, and that the people who hold them are not all idiots!

Psychological research has shown that when we are less invested in these social/worldview identities, and we can look at them with more distance and mindfulness, we are less inclined to respond as if we ourselves are threatened when our assumptions about reality are called in to question. Then a more truly open dialogue, which honors a wider range of perspectives, may start to take place. Supporting individuals to explore and reflect on their worldviews is therefore perhaps where the real change happens."

You can take the world-view test yourself.

[mike777]

The race may become closer and more interesting if Clinton is indicted. At first the thinking was this would force her out of the race but now perhaps not. Can She still count on the die hard 30-40% vote for Hillary no matter what.....


I think last time i checked 538 had her as a 3 or 4-1 favorite.

[kenberg]

 mike777, on 2016-July-01, 19:04, said:

The race may become closer and more interesting if Clinton is indicted. At first the thinking was this would force her out of the race but now perhaps not. Can She still count on the die hard 30-40% vote for Hillary no matter what.....


I think last time i checked 538 had her as a 3 or 4-1 favorite.

You inspired me to go to 538 an see how they rate Clinton/s chance of winning Maryland. They rate it as 99.8%.
I guess I can take a nap, wake me when it's over.

[PassedOut]

The NY Times has this piece today: Inside the Six Weeks Donald Trump Was a Nonstop ‘Birther’

Quote

Joseph Farah, a 61-year-old author, had long labored on the fringes of political life, publishing a six-part series claiming that soybeans caused homosexuality and fretting that “cultural Marxists” were plotting to destroy the country.

But in early 2011, he received the first of several calls from a Manhattan real estate developer who wanted to take one of his theories mainstream.

That developer, Donald J. Trump, told Mr. Farah that he shared his suspicion that President Obama might have been born outside the United States and that he was looking for a way to prove it.

“What can we do to get to the bottom of this?” Mr. Trump asked him. “What can we do to turn the tide?”

Mr. Farah recalled that Mr. Trump even proposed dispatching private investigators to Hawaii, Mr. Obama’s birthplace, to resolve the debate.

Mr. Trump’s eagerness to embrace the so-called birther idea — long debunked, and until then confined to right-wing conspiracy theorists — foreshadowed how, just five years later, Mr. Trump would bedevil his rivals in the Republican presidential primary race and upend the political system.

In the birther movement, Mr. Trump recognized an opportunity to connect with the electorate over an issue many considered taboo: the discomfort, in some quarters of American society, with the election of the nation’s first black president. He harnessed it for political gain, beginning his connection with the largely white Republican base that, in his 2016 campaign, helped clinch his party’s nomination.

“The appeal of the birther issue was, ‘I’m going to take this guy on, and I’m going to beat him,’” said Sam Nunberg, who was one of Mr. Trump’s advisers during that period but was fired from his current campaign. “It was a great niche and wedge issue.”

Seems that Trump -- from long experience taking people for suckers -- calculates that there are enough suckers in the USA to propel him to the White House. That might be funny if he hadn't already been proved right about that with republican voters.

It's interesting to me that the people who consider Trump to be the lesser of two evils never mention competence. I think that's because everyone knows that Clinton -- despite her faults -- is exceptionally knowledgeable and competent in government. And, clearly, Trump is neither of those.

[Al_U_Card]

 PassedOut, on 2016-July-02, 06:48, said:

The NY Times has this piece today: Inside the Six Weeks Donald Trump Was a Nonstop ‘Birther’


Seems that Trump -- from long experience taking people for suckers -- calculates that there are enough suckers in the USA to propel him to the White House. That might be funny if he hadn't already been proved right about that with republican voters.

It's interesting to me that the people who consider Trump to be the lesser of two evils never mention competence. I think that's because everyone knows that Clinton -- despite her faults -- is exceptionally knowledgeable and competent in government. And, clearly, Trump is neither of those.

The appeal comes from the dissatisfaction with that kind of competence. A sea-change, come what may.

[kenberg]

Actually, Trump was born in Australia. It would solve a lot of problems. Maybe not for the Australians.

[PassedOut]

 Al_U_Card, on 2016-July-02, 08:42, said:

The appeal comes from the dissatisfaction with that kind of competence.

I've talked with people who actually believe that a beginner might beat a chess master by confounding the master with unexpected moves.

[mike777]

Just a guess here but perhaps the thinking is as follows:
Congress, Courts, Mexico will block some stuff such as building the wall and kicking all the Muslims/mexicans out or stopping them at the border.

However trump may get to pack the Supreme Court with the help of republicans
raise some taxes and tariffs and create some trade wars/ reduce our oversees military reach with the help of the democrats and a few republicans

Abortion issues as always will go back and forth

Congress, the courts, the executive level bureaucracy along with a wily political VP will make most of the lesser decisions. People will fall in love with the idea of a divided, limited government which controls Trump.

[Al_U_Card]

 PassedOut, on 2016-July-02, 09:05, said:

I've talked with people who actually believe that a beginner might beat a chess master by confounding the master with unexpected moves.

You might want to move in different circles...lol Voter appeal.

[Al_U_Card]

 mike777, on 2016-July-02, 09:51, said:

Just a guess here but perhaps the thinking is as follows:
Congress, Courts, Mexico will block some stuff such as building the wall and kicking all the Muslims/mexicans out or stopping them at the border.

However trump may get to pack the Supreme Court with the help of republicans
raise some taxes and tariffs and create some trade wars/ reduce our oversees military reach with the help of the democrats and a few republicans

Abortion issues as always will go back and forth

Congress, the courts, the executive level bureaucracy along with a wily political VP will make most of the lesser decisions. People will fall in love with the idea of a divided, limited government which controls Trump.

And a fairly lucid guess, at that. But still just a guess

[kenberg]

 mike777, on 2016-July-02, 09:51, said:

Just a guess here but perhaps the thinking is as follows:
Congress, Courts, Mexico will block some stuff such as building the wall and kicking all the Muslims/mexicans out or stopping them at the border.

However trump may get to pack the Supreme Court with the help of republicans
raise some taxes and tariffs and create some trade wars/ reduce our oversees military reach with the help of the democrats and a few republicans

Abortion issues as always will go back and forth

Congress, the courts, the executive level bureaucracy along with a wily political VP will make most of the lesser decisions. People will fall in love with the idea of a divided, limited government which controls Trump.

I am not so sure that Rs would be any more enthusiastic than Ds about packing the Supreme Court with people who want to suppress a free press. It's hardly news to observe that Trump is not a conservative in any recognizable sense.

Anyway, I hope we never find out just what Trump actually will do as pres. I think all of us, liberal and conservative, would come to regret such an experience.


If we use this turmoil to address where we really wish the country to be headed, some good could come of all this. Imagine if you can....

[mike777]

As far as enthusiasm for suppressing a free press, the Bill of Rights has never been very popular among the majority of voters.
The Bill of Rights acts as a brake or block on the power of the majority and the power of the Federal government.