[mike777]

I get the New Yorker for decades

I grant it is liberal...ultra whatever that means



I got this issue in the mail the other day and thought...come on guys....Gross bias....over the top.


I now grant not one other poster said this was over the top....end of discussion.

[Vampyr]

Yesterday on the radio I listened to some comments by Trump supporters after a recent rally. One man said, "some remarks maybe shouldn't have been made, but they don't mean that he doesn't like women or Muslims; it just came out that way".

This is scary. People actually don't believe the bigoted statements he makes. They believe what they want to believe' no matter how ludicrous. An example is another supported who,said she supports him because "he is going to build a wall".

[mike777]

 Vampyr, on 2016-June-17, 01:39, said:

Yesterday on the radio I listened to some comments by Trump supporters after a recent rally. One man said, "some remarks maybe shouldn't have been made, but they don't mean that he doesn't like women or Muslims; it just came out that way".

This is scary. People actually don't believe the bigoted statements he makes. They believe what they want to believe' no matter how ludicrous. An example is another supported who,said she supports him because "he is going to build a wall".

Yes I can understand how this must sound scary....

for example your country the Uk has roughly 3 million immigrants....the usa has roughly 60 million immigrants

Imagine the uk with roughly the same and you get the same number of bigoted comments.

imagine France or Sweden or Norway with that number of bigoted comments...

Here in the Usa we have many more immigrants many more bigots and comments
--

I come from a family of immigrants, just imagine if your country had 60 million immigrants ...so many more bigots and comments.


Again just imagine you live in a country of not 3 million immigrants but 60 million and now imagine the bigots.

[mike777]

I dont think people outside the USA understand how deep the number of bigots of immigrants there are here.

For example in my local town last week there was an article of a young teacher a first year teacher who came highly motivated and left hating our school system after one year. In fact after 2 months she is quoted calling her mother and crying and crying.


She taught second grade, 24 students, ALMOST NONE of the parents of her students spoke English. She only spoke English.

She worked from 7am till 7pm everyday per the article...she hated her job and has now left the county.


This is typical. Over 30% of the first year teachers...left.

I could not print the comments of the parents of these students and how bigoted the teachers sounded.

I dont think people outside the UK can understand how many bigots there can be when there are 60 million immigrants. Just how easy a comment can sound like a bigot.

[Zelandakh]

 mike777, on 2016-June-17, 02:45, said:

for example your country the Uk has roughly 3 million immigrants....the usa has roughly 60 million immigrants
<snip>
Again just imagine you live in a country of not 3 million immigrants but 60 million and now imagine the bigots.

That is hardly a fair comparison Mike, since the countries are not the same size . The numbers are also wrong - as of 2015, the US figure is 47 million and the UK one 9 million. That equates to around 14% of the US population being immigrants and about 11% in the UK, so the difference is not as great as you suggest. On the other hand, America grants birthright citizenship and without that the number would be 25%. Note also that Germany has an immigrant population of about 15% (12 million) and does not seem to be doing so badly. In general, countries with high levels of immigration are doing well. That is logical - people want to emigrate to successful countries - but is also part of the reason they stay ahead, by attracting the most educated and successful people from other countries. It is unquestionable that both the USA and the UK have benefited hugely from immigration over the years, regardless of how the bigots would like to portray things.

[mike777]

 Zelandakh, on 2016-June-17, 03:23, said:

That is hardly a fair comparison Mike, since the countries are not the same size . The numbers are also wrong - as of 2015, the US figure is 47 million and the UK one 9 million. That equates to around 14% of the US population being immigrants and about 11% in the UK, so the difference is not as great as you suggest. On the other hand, America grants birthright citizenship and without that the number would be 25%. Note also that Germany has an immigrant population of about 15% (12 million) and does not seem to be doing so badly. In general, countries with high levels of immigration are doing well. That is logical - people want to emigrate to successful countries - but is also part of the reason they stay ahead, by attracting the most educated and successful people from other countries. It is unquestionable that both the USA and the UK have benefited hugely from immigration over the years, regardless of how the bigots would like to portray things.

ok you may have better numbers ...


I saw 3 million for the UK and 60 million for the USA
You do know we have 15 million illegal immigrants just for starters and all the bigots they have to put up with.


as for my local town...I just quoted an article/long article from last week and one teacher. Again basically the article said none or close to none of her parents could speak English, and 30% of first year teachers left, many with bigotted sounded comments of immigrants. The teachers are in tears calling their mothers after 2 months.

---

I note my local grammer school seems to have the highest test scores in the county and despite that the kids on my local block go to Latin school, Catholic School, Jewish school, private school or home school and I live on a tiny tiny block.


As far as Germany I only read the articles that sound like Germany is full of bigots and claim that women are being raped and the police do nothing.

To be fair there are a number of articles that claim here in the USa women are raped/sexually attacked and nothing happens. So this may very well be a worldwide norm.

[Winstonm]

The next question I have is whether or not Trump will stay in the race through the convention or if he might not pull out in order to garner even more attention for another flamboyant act?

[kenberg]

 Winstonm, on 2016-June-17, 11:45, said:

The next question I have is whether or not Trump will stay in the race through the convention or if he might not pull out in order to garner even more attention for another flamboyant act?

i think, maybe it's just I hope, that his support has crested. The conservative columnist Michael Gerson has written again and again about Trump, but I think he pretty much summarized my own views with the following:

Quote

Republicans are beginning to see that the main problem with their presumptive nominee is not his lack of basic knowledge or his inability to stay on the script of sanity for 10 minutes at a time. The problem is Donald Trump's public character, which no amount of last-minute coaching can change. Trump's instincts were on full display in his reaction to the Orlando terrorist attack. There was a pronounced lack of empathy for victims. There was a resort to insanely partisan conspiracy theories — including insinuations that President Obama is the Manchurian Muslim. There was an almost gleeful credit grab in asserting that his accusations about the violent nature of Islam were vindicated.

This is important because it is the kind of thing ordinary people respond to. People who have never heard of Rousseau or Burke can agree that there is a limit to what we will stomach.


If this is true, if his support starts to fall and then falls further, it is very hard to guess what he will do. File some sort of campaign bankruptcy and re-organize under another name maybe.

[billw55]

Withdrawing? Come on. He is playing this out all the way to the election. His ego demands it; or his service to Clinton does, whichever the case may be.

And his supporters like him expressly because he is a racist misogynist pig. Or least, they believe so. It amazes me that people believe anything he says, even though he constantly contradicts himself and has no record of anything but deception.

I wonder what his speech at the RNC will sound like. He has never given a long speech that I know of. That could be ... entertaining.

[Winstonm]

It is claimed that when LBJ signed the 1964 Civil Rights Act he said, "There goes the South for a decade." Is it possible that the GOP is in the process of losing all of America for a much longer period of time?

[kenberg]

 Winstonm, on 2016-June-17, 15:01, said:

It is claimed that when LBJ signed the 1964 Civil Rights Act he said, "There goes the South for a decade." Is it possible that the GOP is in the process of losing all of America for a much longer period of time?

To quote the great Yogi "A lot of the things I said I didn't say"

https://capitalresea...he-had-said-it/

Anyway, I see no reason to believe the Republicans have lost the nation for an extended length of time. Sounds like wishful thinking. I engage in short term wishful thinking that Trump is on the decline, even with that I really only hope that it is so. But this will shake some things up, that much I grant.

[barmar]

Trump's comments in the wake of the Orlando massacre have me thinking again that Trump is playing a game, seeing how outrageous he can be and still maintain his base of support. It goes back to his comment about how he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose supporters.

Would anyone trying to win an election really respond to the shooting the way Trump has?

[kenberg]

 barmar, on 2016-June-17, 16:58, said:

Trump's comments in the wake of the Orlando massacre have me thinking again that Trump is playing a game, seeing how outrageous he can be and still maintain his base of support. It goes back to his comment about how he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose supporters.

Would anyone trying to win an election really respond to the shooting the way Trump has?

This reminds me that when Trump first announced, I thought exactly as you say. He is going to have some fun, he is not seriously expecting to be president. As the campaign went on, I figured that I was wrong. But perhaps you are right, and this was the game all along.

In 1968, after Eugene McCarthy actually started to look as if he had a serious chance, I think it scared the crap out of him and he set out to sabotage his chances. It's a different setting but I have always thought that McCarthy really did not want to be president, liking to run for president is not the same as wanting to be president, and perhaps the same is true of Trump.

As to my thoughts on McCarthy's motives, as far as I know there is no one in the world who agrees with me on this.

[Vampyr]

 Winstonm, on 2016-June-17, 15:01, said:

It is claimed that when LBJ signed the 1904 Civil Rights Act he said, "There goes the South for a decade." Is it possible that the GOP is in the process of losing all of America for a much longer period of time?

Gosh, LBJ had a really long life.

[Winstonm]

 Vampyr, on 2016-June-17, 17:23, said:

Gosh, LBJ had a really long life.

The first of many civil rights acts....

[blackshoe]

 Vampyr, on 2016-June-17, 01:39, said:

An example is another supported who,said she supports him because "he is going to build a wall".

Does no one remember what Ronald Reagan said?

[Zelandakh]

Out of interest, has Trump commented on the apparent links with right-wing American ("terrorist") groups from the recent murder of Jo Cox? It is after all certain that this would have been a big thing if the culprit had had links with Islam.

[helene_t]

 barmar, on 2016-June-17, 16:58, said:

Would anyone trying to win an election really respond to the shooting the way Trump has?

We have had politicians in Denmark suggesting selling muslim women to brothels in order to patch a whole in the state budget. Another suggestion was to solve the problem with rejected refugees that cannot get a return visa to their home country by simply throwing them out of the flights.

Such statements may not in fact be effective ways to wining an election but I do think those who make such suggestions have the intention to win the election. A psychologist may have fun explaining the phenomena.

[Winstonm]

 blackshoe, on 2016-June-17, 19:34, said:

Does no one remember what Ronald Reagan said?

Well....

[barmar]

 Zelandakh, on 2016-June-18, 05:31, said:

Out of interest, has Trump commented on the apparent links with right-wing American ("terrorist") groups from the recent murder of Jo Cox? It is after all certain that this would have been a big thing if the culprit had had links with Islam.

I was thinking today about all the people who have attacked abortion clinics and doctors who perform abortions, claiming Christian doctrine as their motivation. Yet few people suggest preventing Christians from entering the country because of these violent tendencies.

And we shouldn't forget that the Crusades were basically Christianity's version of Jihad.