[barmar]

 hrothgar, on 2018-July-26, 05:28, said:

We can still count on Drews to demonstrate how completely detached from reality the true believers are.

80% of Republicans still support Trump, essentially the same as when he took office.

I think his claim about being able to shoot someone in Time Square and not lose support is pretty close to true.

[hrothgar]

 barmar, on 2018-July-26, 10:13, said:

80% of Republicans still support Trump, essentially the same as when he took office.

I think his claim about being able to shoot someone in Time Square and not lose support is pretty close to true.

I suspect that we will see that theory tested

1. Looks as if Trump knocked up a playmate a couple years back and paid for her abortion.
it will be interesting to see how the evangelicals respond when this one goes public

2. Cohen has already flipped and I am guessing that Manafort will cut a deal as well, which means a whole lot of money laundering is about to start percolating up.

At some point in time, folks will decide that its better to use Trump as a scapegoat, try to place all the blame on him, and pretend that Pence is viable.
It will be interesting to see what how the Fox News consumers will reaction

They're quite stupid and used to being led, so I suspect that they're go along with it.

[rmnka447]

 hrothgar, on 2018-July-26, 11:10, said:

I suspect that we will see that theory tested

1. Looks as if Trump knocked up a playmate a couple years back and paid for her abortion.
it will be interesting to see how the evangelicals respond when this one goes public

2. Cohen has already flipped and I am guessing that Manafort will cut a deal as well, which means a whole lot of money laundering is about to start percolating up.

At some point in time, folks will decide that its better to use Trump as a scapegoat, try to place all the blame on him, and pretend that Pence is viable.
It will be interesting to see what how the Fox News consumers will reaction

They're quite stupid and used to being led, so I suspect that they're go along with it.

Trump supporters are smart enough to understand that there are more important things in this world than the consensual sexual escapades of a President long before he even ran for office.

It's a dead issue anyway as "reasonable people" decided twenty years ago that the sexual proclivities of a President even when it includes exploitation of a naïve intern while in office and perjuring himself about it before a Grand Jury was OK.

But, Hey, if progressives want to titillate themselves about it and engage in fantasies about what will happen because of it, have at it. It looks a pretty serious mental problem for them to me. I've turned on CNN and MSNBC several times over the past several days to get the progressive take on some important issues. Every time there were a half dozen people discussing Michael Cohen at length. Talk about delusional. Sick.


BTW, hrothgar, I did take time last Sunday to pray for you in Church. I prayed that you might find peace in you life and lose your anger.

[hrothgar]

 rmnka447, on 2018-July-26, 14:05, said:

BTW, hrothgar, I did take time last Sunday to pray for you in Church. I prayed that you might find peace in you life and lose your anger.

Funny, outside of these forums I don't waste time thinking about you at all...

[Al_U_Card]

 Chas_P, on 2018-July-24, 19:09, said:

Maybe the same things Obama and the Russian ambassador were talking about when Obama assured the Russian President he'd have "more flexibility" on missile defense systems after his next election. Or maybe what Bill Clinton was talking about when he pulled down $500,000 for one speech in Moscow after which the Obama administration with HRC as SOS gave Putin the rights to 20% of our uranium supplies. It's all very puzzling.

Errr, "The rich get richer." isn't that puzzling....

[Chas_P]

 Al_U_Card, on 2018-July-26, 16:50, said:

Errr, "The rich get richer." isn't that puzzling....

It really is. Especially so since Hill and Bill were flat broke when they left the White House. Apparently it's only treasonous to deal with the Russians if you're a Republican.

[johnu]

 Chas_P, on 2018-July-26, 19:31, said:

It really is. Especially so since Hill and Bill were flat broke when they left the White House. Apparently it's only treasonous to deal with the Russians if you're a Republican.

Is the Fox Propaganda Channel running reruns again?

In case you didn't notice, and I assume you either didn't notice or didn't care, Bill Clinton was not POTUS when he gave that speech in Russia (also Tony Blair was one of the paid speakers). Let me repeat, Bill Clinton was no longer POTUS. Bill Clinton had no official role in the White House except as a former POTUS.

So, are you complaining that Bill and Hillary got rich after they left office? I guess you fail to see the irony that Dennison is getting rich while in office. In any case, that's what well known politicians who are not in office do. They make speeches, they write books, they sign contracts to be hosts and analysts on TV shows. In fact, I was shocked, shocked I tell you that out of office Republican politicians were also getting rich doing the same thing.

Chas_P said:

Or maybe what Bill Clinton was talking about when he pulled down $500,000 for one speech in Moscow after which the Obama administration with HRC as SOS gave Putin the rights to 20% of our uranium supplies. It's all very puzzling.

Yes, it is very puzzling if you get all your news on the Fox Propaganda Channel. If you would like some fact checks,

Hillary Clinton Gave 20 Percent of United States’ Uranium to Russia in Exchange for Clinton Foundation Donations?

Compare that with the Fox Propaganda Channel "facts" if you can find them.

[Al_U_Card]

 Chas_P, on 2018-July-26, 19:31, said:

It really is. Especially so since Hill and Bill were flat broke when they left the White House. Apparently it's only treasonous to deal with the Russians if you're a Republican.

Also depends on your "cause". Machiavellian.

[Winstonm]

Now that the echo chamber has stopped vibrating, let's introduce some reality into this orchestra pit.(emphasis added)

Quote

The latest national survey from Marist and NBC News polls several of those states, giving us a snapshot of the president’s popularity with voters he has to hold to win a second term. The picture isn’t great.

In Michigan, where Trump won by 11,000 votes, 54 percent of registered voters disapprove of his performance, compared to 36 percent who approve. In Minnesota, where he narrowly lost, 51 percent currently disapprove, compared to 38 percent who approve. And in Wisconsin, a state he won by 23,000 votes, 52 percent disapprove, compared to 36 who approve.

By wide margins, voters in these states want a Democratic Congress. They want that Congress to act as a “check and balance” on Trump. Despite the growing economy, few give him credit for economic improvement, and looking ahead to 2020, nearly two-thirds in each state say it’s time to “give a new person a chance” in the White House.

The "base" isn't enough to re-elect any president. And that last line is a doozy - the very people who voted for Dennison-as-change in 2016 now want nothing to do with him other than to exchange him for someone (anyone?) else.

[andrei]

 johnu, on 2018-July-26, 22:47, said:

Is the Fox Propaganda Channel running reruns again?

In case you didn't notice, and I assume you either didn't notice or didn't care, Bill Clinton was not POTUS when he gave that speech in Russia (also Tony Blair was one of the paid speakers). Let me repeat, Bill Clinton was no longer POTUS. Bill Clinton had no official role in the White House except as a former POTUS.

So, are you complaining that Bill and Hillary got rich after they left office? I guess you fail to see the irony that Dennison is getting rich while in office. In any case, that's what well known politicians who are not in office do. They make speeches, they write books, they sign contracts to be hosts and analysts on TV shows. In fact, I was shocked, shocked I tell you that out of office Republican politicians were also getting rich doing the same thing.



Yes, it is very puzzling if you get all your news on the Fox Propaganda Channel. If you would like some fact checks,

Hillary Clinton Gave 20 Percent of United States’ Uranium to Russia in Exchange for Clinton Foundation Donations?

Compare that with the Fox Propaganda Channel "facts" if you can find them.

It seems you forgot to dispute "Obama assured the Russian President he'd have "more flexibility" on missile defense systems after his next election" POTUS quote.

[johnu]

 andrei, on 2018-July-27, 09:01, said:

It seems you forgot to dispute "Obama assured the Russian President he'd have "more flexibility" on missile defense systems after his next election" POTUS quote.

I didn't think it was necessary but you obviously think otherwise.

I'll give you 3 points to think about:

1. Obama was not a Russian sock puppet
2. Dennison is a Russian sock puppet
3. Obama was just stating a fact. Back when Republicans were hard core Russian haters, any negotiations with the Russians would have been campaign fodder for the Republicans. Maybe you can imagine going back in time to 2012 when that happened and recreating what would have happened if Dennison were a Democratic president (this will take a lot of imagination ) and he was cozying up to Russia like the Dennison of 2018.

[hrothgar]

 Chas_P, on 2018-July-26, 19:31, said:

It really is. Especially so since Hill and Bill were flat broke when they left the White House. Apparently it's only treasonous to deal with the Russians if you're a Republican.

Simple question for the Trumpistas

Suppose that the Mueller probe were to find conclusive evidence that the Trump "real estate" empire is, in fact, a large scale money laundering scheme, with its profits coming from some mixture of

1. Russian Oligarches
2. South American drug cartels
3. The Iranian National Guard

Would this disclosure change your opinion about whether or not Trump should remain in office?

[ldrews]

 hrothgar, on 2018-July-27, 09:45, said:

Simple question for the Trumpistas

Suppose that the Mueller probe were to find conclusive evidence that the Trump "real estate" empire is, in fact, a large scale money laundering scheme, with its profits coming from some mixture of

1. Russian Oligarches
2. South American drug cartels
3. The Iranian National Guard

Would this disclosure change your opinion about whether or not Trump should remain in office?

Actually the germane question is: Is Trump producing the results that he was elected for? If yes, he should remain in office, if no then he should not remain if office.

[hrothgar]

 ldrews, on 2018-July-27, 10:17, said:

Actually the germane question is: Is Trump producing the results that he was elected for? If yes, he should remain in office, if no then he should not remain if office.

And here we see the the problem with the current state of American democracy

35% of the electorate is complete ignorant of the state of the world and willing to excuse any crime if they believe it help their team...

[Winstonm]

The reason behind the faith may in part be found here, with belief in "coincidence".

Condensed from Paul Waldman at the Washington Post:

To believe the latest message from Dennison, that he was totally unaware of the June meeting held 1 floor below him in his own tower, attended by his son, Junior, his campaign manager Manafort, his chief policy adviser Kushner, along with a host of Kremlin-connected Russians who promised to deliver Russian dirt on Hillary Clinton you have to believe that:

1) Jr. wouldn’t have told his father about the meeting,
2) that neither Paul Manafort nor Jared Kushner would have bothered to tell Trump Dennison about the meeting, either,
3) that it is mere coincidence that between the email to Don Jr. and the tower meeting, Trump Dennsion on the campaign trail touted damaging information he was
about to reveal about Hillary,
4) that Trump Dennison and his team released a false statement to the public about the tower meeting even though they hadn’t done anything wrong,
5) that President Trump Dennison lied to the public for no particular reason about crafting the false statement,
6) that working with representatives of the Russian government to get dirt on your opponent is perfectly fine,
7) and now finally that Michael Cohen is making up the story that Dennison knew about the tower meeting prior to its occurrence.

Sure, who wouldn't believe all that?

[awm]

 Winstonm, on 2018-July-27, 12:28, said:

...

Sure, who wouldn't believe all that?

I don't think this is the point. Trump has been extremely successful at:

1. Pissing off the liberals.
2. Taking a hard line against those "socialist" Europeans.
3. Rounding up the brown people and kicking a lot of them out of the country.
4. Restoring our "white pride" in our "blood and soil" and putting non-whites, non-christians, and non-males back in their "proper place."
5. Making sure the police can continue to "protect and serve" by shooting unarmed black men.
6. Appointing conservatives to the courts who will "protect the rights of the unborn" and of corporations (rather than those of actual people).
7. Improving our relationships with Russia and North Korea by no longer considering human rights an important aspect of foreign policy.
8. Providing a massive tax cut for "job creators" whose benevolence will surely trickle down to the rest of us any day now.

With accomplishments like these, they're happy to overlook minor details like lying, cheating, and stealing... heck getting away with lying, cheating, and stealing is proof that Trump is smart and a great businessman. And collaborating with a foreign power to steal an election... well, you win however you can, and winning is all that matters.

[Winstonm]

There is good news/bad news for Dennison.

The good news: The quarterly economy showed an annualized 4.1% growth.
The bad news: This was less than two consecutive quarters experienced during the Obama years, and it was propelled by huge soy bean purchases from China in expectation of tariffs taking effect - a boost that will not be felt next quarter, not to mention that quarterly growth fluctuations are wildly volatile.

The good news: new polls show 88% of Republicans support Dennison
The bad news: Americans who identify as Republican have fallen to 26%, the lowest in twenty-five years, which means the 88% translates to only 23% of total registered voters, meaning that the Republican party is shrinking as it becomes more and more the party of Dennison.

Then there is simply bad news/bad news for Dennison:

The bad news: A recent poll shows that there are 48 districts currently held by Republicans where the voters believe the Republicans are “more corrupt” than the Democrats.

More bad news: The poll also found that Independents are even more critical of the GOP, with 60% saying Republicans are “responsible for the majority of corruption taking place in Washington.”

Then there is really bad news: A separate Quinnipiac University poll found that the Democratic lead in the generic ballot has increased to twelve points over Republicans

And finally, devastatingly bad news: 50% of Independents preferred Democrats, compared to only 33% preferring Republicans.

As the saying goes - you can fool independents and some Democrats some of the time but hard core right-wing Republicans are good with being fooled all the time.

[ldrews]

 Winstonm, on 2018-July-27, 16:31, said:

There is good news/bad news for Dennison.

The good news: The quarterly economy showed an annualized 4.1% growth.
The bad news: This was less than two consecutive quarters experienced during the Obama years, and it was propelled by huge soy bean purchases from China in expectation of tariffs taking effect - a boost that will not be felt next quarter, not to mention that quarterly growth fluctuations are wildly volatile.

The good news: new polls show 88% of Republicans support Dennison
The bad news: Americans who identify as Republican has fallen to 26%, the lowest in twenty-five years, which means the 88% translates to only 23% of total registered voters, meaning that the Republican party is shrinking as it becomes more and more the party of Dennison.

Then there is simply bad news/bad news for Dennison:

The bad news: A recent poll shows that there are 48 districts currently held by Republicans where the voters believe the Republicans are “more corrupt” than the Democrats.

More bad news: The poll also found that Independents are even more critical of the GOP, with 60% saying Republicans are “responsible for the majority of corruption taking place in Washington.”

Then there is really bad news: A separate Quinnipiac University poll found that the Democratic lead in the generic ballot has increased to twelve points over Republicans

And finally, devastatingly bad news: 50% of Independents preferred Democrats, compared to only 33% preferring Republicans.

As the saying goes - you can fool independents and some Democrats some of the time but hard core right-wing Republicans are good with being fooled all the time.

I remember the 2016 election. According to the polls, Trump did not stand a chance of getting the Republican nomination. Then he didn't stand a chance of getting elected. Then he didn't stand a chance of turning the economy around. Then he didn't stand a chance of improving relationships with North Korea. Then he didn't stand a chance of ...

Now he doesn't stand a chance of keeping the House and Senate in Republican control.

we will see in November, won't we?

[Al_U_Card]

 ldrews, on 2018-July-27, 16:58, said:

I remember the 2016 election. According to the polls, Trump did not stand a chance of getting the Republican nomination. Then he didn't stand a chance of getting elected. Then he didn't stand a chance of turning the economy around. Then he didn't stand a chance of improving relationships with North Korea. Then he didn't stand a chance of ...

Now he doesn't stand a chance of keeping the House and Senate in Republican control.

we will see in November, won't we?

Weren't most of those achievements due to Russian "assistance"? Unless the Meuller inquisition can put a stop to such shenanigans, undoubtedly those pesky Russkies will put the fix in yet again...

[Winstonm]

In the waning days, Nate Silver at 538 said their data was indicating a possible dichotomy between the popular vote and the electoral votes.