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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#21601 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted Yesterday, 05:03

View PostAl Phalpha, on 2024-July-15, 17:35, said:

How do you guys feel about Trump's VP choice?


I have no comment about US politics at all, but I do get sick of incessant childhood sob stories used by politicans of all colours
I was brought up on the Four Yorkshiremen and have always avoided entering politics knowing I could never sob enough to connect
It does seem de rigeur these days. Not what you are going to do for people, but starting off with a sob story
We all have them but do they connect?? No comment on the US at all
And purely as a disinterested observer I am impressed that you can dis Donald Trump and then become his running mate
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#21602 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted Yesterday, 07:09

View PostAl Phalpha, on 2024-July-15, 17:35, said:

How do you guys feel about Trump's VP choice?


A very good question. First I acknowledge my ignorance. I had forgotten that Vance was the author of Hillbilly Elegy. When it came out I thought I might read it but I never got around to it and did not connect Senator Vance as being the author until now.

It is impossible to imagine a Vance-like person as the VP choice of any previous Republican presidential nominee. Bush and Vance? Reagan and Vance? Eiisenhower and Vance. No. The Repulican Party has little resemblance to what it once was. Actually the Democratic Party has changed considerably,also, but less dramatically.

I heard some thinking that the R's would seek votes from suburban women. I guess not just yet.

I try not to whine, I live comfortably, no complaints, but I am one among I think a great many who say these are my choices?

Maybe I'll put it like this: I really think Trump's only interest is Trump. I would oppose Trump if he came up with a platform that well matched my views, I simply think he is an awful person. With Vance, I disagree. For example I think it is very important to support Ukrane both on general prinnciples and because I thinnk it is in our own best interests to do so. We do not want a break with Europe. But I am at least willing to consider it possible that Vance's views are based on what he thinks is best for the country. I disagree with his views, I strongly disagree, but that happens. Trump? I would not trust him with my wallet or my daugter and definitely not with my country.
Ken
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#21603 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted Yesterday, 15:04

View PostAl Phalpha, on 2024-July-15, 17:35, said:

How do you guys feel about Trump's VP choice?


I am guessing, or maybe hoping, you lean toward the R side. We could use some good discussion. Here we mostly think alike, or enough alike that posting gets pointless.

Many of us worry about the side-effects of drugs. I'm 85 and I recently had my fourth of six planned chemo infusions to combat cancer. Believe me there are side effects. But there are also good reasons for doing it. Marjorie Taylor Greene and RFK Jr are off in space on vaccines and DT seems happy to accompany them

Everyone wants honest elections, and there are challenges. My first vote was for Kennedy in 1960 and I recall there was at least some reason to believe that a lot of dead people in Chicago voted for him But maybe this was balanced by some Nixon shenanigans in southern Illinois. My understanding now is that non-partisan experts regard our current situation as being the best it has ever been. Challenges have been examined and the results hold up. DT telling people that they must find him more votes somewhere is not what I hope for from a would-be leader.

I am not all that happy with everything Biden does. Student loan forgiveness is an example. First we acknowledge that a loan and a scholarship are different things. Repayment is expected for one, not for the other. And then we have to state the obvious: If the student loan program has people some trillion plus dollars in debt often with no realistic hope of repayment, this is a seriously effed up program. Exactly what to do is far from clear, to me or to anyone, but starting with a couple of obvious truths would be useful

I grew up in an environment that I would describe as strongly practical. My (adoptive) father came to this country at age 10 with his 16 year old brother. He fnished eighth grad and went to work. I once asked about his childhood, he responded "My childhood was Hell: and refused to discuss it further. But thanks to his practical approach I was raised in a safe neighborhood and went on to college.

Something has gone very wrong, I hope we find our way through this. I am willing to listen to conservatives, not so willing to listen to people, I woould not call them conservatives, who think vaccines are a plot to turn us all into zombies.

I apologize if this is too personal.
Ken
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#21604 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted Yesterday, 16:48

View PostAl Phalpha, on 2024-July-15, 17:35, said:

How do you guys feel about Trump's VP choice?


He said that on Labour's election victory, the UK was now the only Islamic state with nuclear bombs, that makes him even more deluded than Trump.
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#21605 User is offline   Al Phalpha 

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Posted Yesterday, 17:47

View Postkenberg, on 2024-July-16, 15:04, said:

I am guessing, or maybe hoping, you lean toward the R side. We could use some good discussion. Here we mostly think alike, or enough alike that posting gets pointless.

Many of us worry about the side-effects of drugs. I'm 85 and I recently had my fourth of six planned chemo infusions to combat cancer. Believe me there are side effects. But there are also good reasons for doing it. Marjorie Taylor Greene and RFK Jr are off in space on vaccines and DT seems happy to accompany them

Everyone wants honest elections, and there are challenges. My first vote was for Kennedy in 1960 and I recall there was at least some reason to believe that a lot of dead people in Chicago voted for him But maybe this was balanced by some Nixon shenanigans in southern Illinois. My understanding now is that non-partisan experts regard our current situation as being the best it has ever been. Challenges have been examined and the results hold up. DT telling people that they must find him more votes somewhere is not what I hope for from a would-be leader.

I am not all that happy with everything Biden does. Student loan forgiveness is an example. First we acknowledge that a loan and a scholarship are different things. Repayment is expected for one, not for the other. And then we have to state the obvious: If the student loan program has people some trillion plus dollars in debt often with no realistic hope of repayment, this is a seriously effed up program. Exactly what to do is far from clear, to me or to anyone, but starting with a couple of obvious truths would be useful

I grew up in an environment that I would describe as strongly practical. My (adoptive) father came to this country at age 10 with his 16 year old brother. He fnished eighth grad and went to work. I once asked about his childhood, he responded "My childhood was Hell: and refused to discuss it further. But thanks to his practical approach I was raised in a safe neighborhood and went on to college.

Something has gone very wrong, I hope we find our way through this. I am willing to listen to conservatives, not so willing to listen to people, I woould not call them conservatives, who think vaccines are a plot to turn us all into zombies.

I apologize if this is too personal.

No apology necessary. I'm sorry to hear of your cancer diagnosis. I wish you a complete recovery and a few more years of wisdom expressed. I agree with you completely that "Something has gone very wrong." I hope both of us can live long enough to see things turned around to some degree of sanity. And, just for the record, I think MTG (and AOC) should hitch a ride on the Hale-Bopp comet.
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#21606 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted Yesterday, 18:20

View PostAl Phalpha, on 2024-July-16, 17:47, said:

And, just for the record, I think MTG (and AOC) should hitch a ride on the Hale-Bopp comet.

Just another case of false equivalence.

In US politics, while everybody is graded on a curve, the QOP is graded on a much lower curve than Democrats. MTG and others like Boebert are an entirely different level of out of the mainstream than any of the Democrats.
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#21607 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted Today, 09:04

We were asked for thoughts about Vance. I never wrote a memoir, I did not grow up a hillbilly, he is very different from me, but still. He joined the military, then went to Ohio State. I considered joining the military after HS. In 1956 we all assumed guys would spend a couple of years in the military, but I decided to take a student deferment and go to the University of Minnesota. Tuition was low ($72 a quarter) so I figured I could afford it if I lived at home. I imagine that Vance, like me, had to make his choices and figure how he would pay for them. Miraculously, I got a scholarship. I made the right choice for me, Vance made the right choice for Vance.

One of the many things that I think are screwed up these days is all this effort to send kids of modest backgrounds to Harvard. I went to the U of M. I belonged at the U of M. Not at Harvard. No kid in my high school class belonged at Harvard. My friend Fred took shop math instead of algebra and became a plumber. Made a good living at it I think. Most of my friends from my HS did not go to college but I had friends from other schools who did and being with them in the early years of college was useful.

Sending youngsters like I was off to elite schools seems like an error to me. Yes, they can put Yale on their resumes, and Yale gets to congratulate itself on how it is open to everyone, but how is it really working? Well, there is a lot of student debt. Yeah, some succeed and pay it off, but we have a problem.

Yesterday I was at a doctor's office (new hearing aids) and I got to chatting with the receptionist. Her daughter is in community college, living at home, and planning on going on to the university when she finishes cc. She is doing well, will probably do well at the U and then get a job. Her student debt should be manageable. Her mother was pleased, she said "I don't see why she needs to go to some fancy school that we can't afford". I heartily agreed.

Vance and I see things differently but we might agree that right now there are people who set up programs aimed to help but these people doing the setting up have problems with realistic thinking.
Ken
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