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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#18381 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted Yesterday, 14:28

The founders were actually quite explicit in opposing super majority requirements for passing legislation.

The following is useful reading on the subject
https://core.ac.uk/d...f/231040419.pdf

The "tradition" that Machin and Sinema are protecting is roughly 40 years old (and historically has been a tool used by racist Southerners)
Alderaan delenda est
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#18382 User is online   Chas_P 

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Posted Yesterday, 17:19

View Postkenberg, on 2021-June-18, 06:59, said:

I have a challenge for you.I assume you are not a fan of the guy who wants Jan 6 to be thought of as just a group of tourists, but I am hoping for more. I hope that many Republicans agree with Gerson and Will that the sooner the Trump supporters are gone from power the better off we will all be. Would you care to say where you are on this spectrum?

As previously (many times) stated, I am not a "Trump supporter". I am a common-sense supporter. I could go on, but I won't. It's a complete waste of time in this forum (but I'm 83 years old and still, hopefully, have some time to waste). I respect your views; you are the only one on here whose views I do respect even though they often differ from mine. But you seem to have a grasp on "pursuit of happiness"; most of the others only seem interested in "pursuit of power". It doesn't really bother me; I've not only pursued happiness; I've caught it. I hope you have too. Best wishes to you and Becky.

Your friend,
Charles

#18383 User is offline   y66 

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Posted Yesterday, 19:42

Edward Luce at FT said:

https://www.ft.com/c...23-74089d953173

From Europe’s point of view, Joe Biden’s one-week visit could hardly have gone better. Having spent four years being pilloried by Donald Trump — for low Nato defence spending, trade surpluses, freeriding on US generosity and behaving like a “geopolitical foe” — Europe was craving Biden’s diplomatic balm.

The 46th US president did not disappoint. America’s friendship was “rock solid”, Biden said; Europe’s security was America’s “sacred obligation”. In addition to strategic reassurance, Biden also lifted punitive US tariffs on Europe and called off the long-running Boeing-Airbus subsidy dispute.

The relief among European officials was visible. Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, referred to America’s president as “Dear Joe” — an endearment it would be hard to imagine being used for many of Biden’s predecessors, not just Trump. “Biden’s language and tone was everything Europeans wished for,” says Jeremy Shapiro, research director at the European Council on Foreign Relations.

America’s internal divisions, as demonstrated during the clashes at the US Capitol on January 6 this year, have been a concern for European leaders © Brent Stirton/Getty Images
Long-running differences remain — not least over Europe’s low defence spending. But the larger purpose behind Biden’s trip, which began with the G7 gathering in an occasionally drizzly Cornwall and wrapped up with the Vladimir Putin summit in Geneva, had more to do with the Indo-Pacific than the Atlantic.

Prior to Biden’s first overseas presidential foray, there was speculation about where his strategic priority lay. Was it the contest between democracy and autocracy, managing the new era of great power competition, reasserting US-led multilateralism or forging coalitions to tackle the pandemic and global warming? The answer is “all of the above”.

But Biden’s trip conveyed what matters most. His overriding preoccupation is China. Biden’s much-hyped Summit of Democracy, which received rote citation from the G7, has been put off until next year. No venue was specified. By contrast, the China challenge appeared three times in the G7 communiqué and was for the first time cited by Nato — an alliance supposedly about defending the north Atlantic.

US President Joe Biden reassured Europe’s leaders that security was America’s ‘sacred obligation’ © Patrick Semansky/AP
“Biden’s basic message to his European friends was: ‘Don’t worry guys, I’ve got your back. Now let me go and do my real business in the Indo-Pacific’,” says Robin Niblett, director of Chatham House, the London-based think-tank. “The language on China was careful. But it threaded through everything.”

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If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#18384 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted Yesterday, 20:01

View PostChas_P, on 2021-June-19, 17:19, said:

As previously (many times) stated, I am not a "Trump supporter". I am a common-sense supporter. I could go on, but I won't. It's a complete waste of time in this forum (but I'm 83 years old and still, hopefully, have some time to waste). I respect your views; you are the only one on here whose views I do respect even though they often differ from mine. But you seem to have a grasp on "pursuit of happiness"; most of the others only seem interested in "pursuit of power". It doesn't really bother me; I've not only pursued happiness; I've caught it. I hope you have too. Best wishes to you and Becky.

Your friend,
Charles


Thanks, and best wishes to you as well.

Becky is well and my two daughters are coming around for Father's Day tomorrow so I expect to take a 24 hour break from advising the world. Who knows, maybe even longer. Or maybe shorter, some things are on my mind. One day at a time.

Ken
Ken
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#18385 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted Yesterday, 21:53

View PostChas_NoDignityNoIntegrityNoHonesty, on 2021-June-19, 17:19, said:

As previously (many times) stated, I am not a "Trump supporter".


I guess that is technically correct. You are a Trump stooge who blindly supports the twice impeached, one term Individual-1, Manchurian President, Grifter in Chief.
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#18386 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted Today, 08:33

View Postawm, on 2021-June-19, 13:16, said:

The problem is that the senate already protects minority (small state) rights by construction as well as preventing quick changes of control by having six year terms and staggered elections. In the current highly polarized environment it's almost impossible for Democrats to ever get sixty senators, and Republicans aren't going to pass a law banning their own voter suppression tactics!

Even so, if the filibuster required that the minority actually be present to hold the floor and argue against the bill they're trying to stop, Manchin might have a point on preserving it. But the current filibuster doesn't even require the minority to be in town — it's just a "sixty votes for everything" rule which is pretty dumb. Hopefully when no Republicans get on board for Manchin's "voting rights compromise" he will agree to at least require a talking filibuster.


Right. There are problems. Definitely. I re-read the Klein article that I was commenting on. Klein also recognizes that there are problems.

Part of the article;

Quote

What has not been clear is his strategy. At his worst, Manchin prizes the aesthetic of bipartisanship over its actual pursuit. In those moments, he becomes a defender of the status quo and, paradoxically, an enabler of Republican partisanship. But over the past 24 hours, a plausible path has emerged through which Manchin could build a more cooperative and deliberative Senate. It's narrow, but it's there.

Part of the strategy relies on changing the rules. Manchin has said, over and over again, that he will not eliminate or weaken the filibuster. I wish he'd reconsider, but he won't. The possibility remains, however, that he will strengthen the filibuster.

Historically, the filibuster was a way for committed groups of senators to force debate, for as long as they wanted, on issues of unusual importance to them. Modern filibusters betray that legacy. They do not require debate, they do not require the intense physical commitment of the minority and they do not encourage the long, dramatic deliberations that focus the American public on issues of consequence.

It's possible to imagine a set of reforms that would restore something more like the filibuster of yore and rebuild the deliberative capacities of the Senate. This would begin with a variation on the congressional scholar Norm Ornstein's idea to shift the burden of the filibuster: Instead of demanding 60 votes to end debate, require 40 (or 41) to continue it.



OK, we must try not to be naive. But we need something. Some change. It's ridiculous that we cannot have a commission to look into how Jan 6 happened and appalling that the division is on party lines. Getting vaccine and wearing masks breaks dow along party lines. This is nuts.

I see Klein as saying that maybe, well sure maybe not, but maybe, just maybe, Manchin can do something about this. Not solve it, not in any complete sense, but maybe make a little progress. This is what I am agreeing with.


Your reply came before Richard's and I decided to just copy your comment, but much of this is also for Richard. And I note in particular "restore something more like the filibuster of yore ". Thanks R for the reference, I will at least browse it. But if we go back maybe 60 years instead of 40, and instead of to the 1780s, I think the filibuster was the "filibuster of yore". And yes, I know it was used by the south to support racist structures. I am not suggesting that we return to that.




Mostly I worry that we have reached a stage of dysfunction. I don't expect a miracle, but if, as perhaps might happen, Manchin can bring maybe a dozen or so Republicans to support something of substance then I say hooray.
Ken
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#18387 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted Today, 10:01

I doubt whether 11 Republican Senators will ever vote yes and risk the voting wrath of the hard right. They may want to - but can they or will they need to pull a Flake?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#18388 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted Today, 10:43

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-June-20, 10:01, said:

I doubt whether 11 Republican Senators will ever vote yes and risk the voting wrath of the hard right. They may want to - but can they or will they need to pull a Flake?


To quote:

They call you Lady Luck
But there is room for doubt


But then Luck was a lady for that night

And while on this side subject, I recently read that Damon Runyon and Bat Masterson were friends and that Sky was modeled on Bat. Loosely modeled, I think.

Anyway, we can hope.Or

You might forget your manners
You might refuse to stay
And so the best that I can do is pray.

We need some help!


ok, it's a song of optimism.
Ken
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#18389 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted Today, 15:05

View Postkenberg, on 2021-June-20, 10:43, said:

To quote:

They call you Lady Luck
But there is room for doubt


But then Luck was a lady for that night

And while on this side subject, I recently read that Damon Runyon and Bat Masterson were friends and that Sky was modeled on Bat. Loosely modeled, I think.

Anyway, we can hope.Or

You might forget your manners
You might refuse to stay
And so the best that I can do is pray.

We need some help!


ok, it's a song of optimism.


I've got a horse right here
His name is Paul Revere

And there are also songs for suckers. Posted Image

Can do, can do
This guy says the horse can do
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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