[eagles123]

all vul at imps

---

2c is 3+ unless specifically 4522

first of all, do you agree with 1N?

second, what now?

[Poky]

4♣, invitational to 5♣.

[BillPatch]

 eagles123, on 2015-July-23, 14:23, said:

. . . .
first of all, do you agree with 1N?
second, what now?

I agree with 1NT, but it's close.
Now I raise to 3♣. If he tries 3NT, I hope a rebid of 4♣ is non-forcing.

[PhilKing]

2♦ - the warning signs are there. It feels like partner's most likely shape is 4513, so 2♦ should be the best spot.

[Jinksy]

I would pass 1♥, and as I predicted, I'm wetter than most players here. Do those who support 1N consider it close?

[akwoo]

How bad is South? Any chance he or she will let you buy it at 2♣?

Assuming South is not known to be bad, I bid 3♣. Sure it's an overbid, but I'm rather worried that pass (or 2♦) leads to 2♠-P-4♠. That's half the reason I bid 1N in the first place.

[PhilKing]

 Jinksy, on 2015-July-23, 15:53, said:

I would pass 1♥, and as I predicted, I'm wetter than most players here. Do those who support 1N consider it close?

It would not occur to me.

[wank]

I know you don't have your all important 6 hcp but perhaps it should be evident this hand is about 5 tricks more useful with a minor as trumps than if you succeed in putting the dunmy down in 1h.

[SteveMoe]

Duplicate post

[SteveMoe]

Somewhat depends on whether 1N is forcing or semi-forcing. If semi-forcing, partner is not a minimum 4=5=2=2 (Partner passes 1NT).

2♠ here shows a good raise of partner's ♣ suit and that's what I got. If partner continues 2N or 3♣ I'll bid 3♦ so partner can evaluate whether 5♣ is feasible. The point here is 4♣ is likely safe (loser count) unless partner has the dreaded 4=5=2=2= min. I need partner's help to determine if ♦ help us make 5. Partner can pass 3♦ with 4=5=2=2 in the worst case.

Importantly this hand is not a jump to 4♣ as playing opposite Hx will be little fun.

[mike777]

3c


less than 2s then 3c but not zero.
"impossible 2s"

expect pard to pass 1nt or rebid 2h or not open their hand with most minimums.

[Phil]

El Paso.

We bid 1N primarily to improve the contract and to cater to a good hand.

Partner is very short in diamonds. A void would not surprise me.

I have a feeling the other table is passing a Flannery opening...

[Jinksy]

 wank, on 2015-July-23, 17:00, said:

I know you don't have your all important 6 hcp but perhaps it should be evident this hand is about 5 tricks more useful with a minor as trumps than if you succeed in putting the dunmy down in 1h.

Your judgement is obviously better than mine, but I don't find this reason convincing. I'd have guessed the hand to average about 2 tricks better in a minor, which is normally the minimum number of extra tricks I expect us needing to make if I bid. And if we're off in all contracts, we're more likely to be off doubled if we're at the three level.

Meanwhile, bidding can get us into nasty contracts in a number of other ways. I won't be thrilled to hear any of 2♠, 2N, 3♥, 3N, or 4♥ from P, directly or after competition, nor to hear a high level X. Even if he bids 2♥, I'm not confident I'll be improving the contract by bidding 3♦, since now it sounds like he's got a reasonable suit, and might have some soft values outside that can only get established if he gets to name trumps.

So it seems like with 1N I'm basically angling for a 2m or 3m rebid (and I'm ambivalent about 3♣), which feels antipercentage.

[gszes]

We cannot shoot for the moon every hand because it simply is not SAFE (especially at imps). Raising to 3c here just seems way wrong as it can get us way in over our heads in so many ways. This hand has a lot of potential but if partner cannot bid over 2d (in a positive way) game is just plain anti% and maybe by a huge margin. This hand rates to play much better in diamonds than anywhere else (unless p rebids hearts or (clubs which I would then follow with a club raise)). Worrying about playing in the minors (especially at imps) is just wrong especially when we hold a max 2 loser suit of our own to bid. We will indeed miss a few games bidding 2d but overall we will be a ton happier and healthier than messing around with clubs or passing 1h.

Bidding 2d has an extra advantage if p perhaps bids 2h 2n or 3n we can then introduce clubs and p will have a very good idea of our pattern and weakness. Messing around with clubs has a monstrous risk of completely losing our longest and strongest suit.

[Lovera]

 gszes, on 2015-July-24, 11:14, said:

We cannot shoot for the moon every hand because it simply is not SAFE (especially at imps). Raising to 3c here just seems way wrong as it can get us way in over our heads in so many ways. This hand has a lot of potential but if partner cannot bid over 2d (in a positive way) game is just plain anti% and maybe by a huge margin. This hand rates to play much better in diamonds than anywhere else (unless p rebids hearts or (clubs which I would then follow with a club raise)). Worrying about playing in the minors (especially at imps) is just wrong especially when we hold a max 2 loser suit of our own to bid. We will indeed miss a few games bidding 2d but overall we will be a ton happier and healthier than messing around with clubs or passing 1h.

Bidding 2d has an extra advantage if p perhaps bids 2h 2n or 3n we can then introduce clubs and p will have a very good idea of our pattern and weakness. Messing around with clubs has a monstrous risk of completely losing our longest and strongest suit.

I too think that to hide the 6 cards diamond suit could not be a good idea (and with a form of risk) because : opener has shown, until now, an half-balanced min.(max 16 points) and with our points we cannot get much in high. But with a 5431 by opener we can perhaps contribute. If we raise immediatly club it meaning a simple choising between heart or club not just with an 1- 1 - 6 - 5 that, fourthemore, is not good for NT.(Lovera)

[kenberg]

After 1H-Pass-? I would bid 1NT. It's true that i will not be happy if partner bids 2S. Yes that would be strong, but still I am not happy. But I still bid 1NT. I assume it is forcing but I bid it even if it isn't. And over 2C I bid 2D.

I am not really expecting game to make anywhere. Could be, but I am not expecting it. My thinking is that I can probably make 2D and, if by any chance it goes 2D-Pass-Pass-(2S), I will bid 3C and partner, whatever he is holding, is apt to make the right choice.

i agree that a bid of 2S over 2C shows a good raise in clubs, i just don't think that I have one. And I want my diamonds in play.

I could be wrong in my choice, but with a five count I do my best. I think that 1H-1NT and then 2D over 2C is my best.

[mikeh]

Note that many NA expert or advanced pairs might not have 2♦ as an option here. Playing BART, which is playable after a 1♥ opener, in a slightly different way than after a 1♠ opener, 2♦ is an artificial puppet to 2♥, either to play or to allow for a further call by responder, which call will carry a different meaning than had responder made that call directly over 2♣. Thus, if playing BART, one really has no option but to pass and hope partner doesn't hold the feared 4=5=2=2.

FWIW, I would always respond with this hand. Passing is giving up. Not only do you make it easy for the opps to balance with 1♠, but how would you feel if N had a 3m jumpshift over 1N?

[kenberg]

I have never played BART although I long ago read a bit about it. Would BART help here? After 1H-1NT-2C I assume that 2S is still a strong club raise and a direct 3C is a lesser club raise. If so, that could reasonably leave the relay to hearts followed by 3C to show something such as this. If so, if 1S-1NT-2C-2D(artificial) -2H(forced)-3C shows a minor two suiter with more diamonds than clubs, I would do it. I don't have that much strength but I would be happy to show the shape if it is possible.

Lacking such gadgetry, I would, as noted, bid a forcing NT and convert 2C to 2D.

[mike777]

wow

I see most posters are worried pard has a piece of crap hand.


I am worried pard has something close to:

xxx
AKxxx
A
AKxx

we need NOT jump shift

[kenberg]

 mike777, on 2015-July-24, 21:19, said:

wow

I see most posters are worried pard has a piece of crap hand.


I am worried pard has something close to:

xxx
AKxxx
A
AKxx

we need NOT jump shift

Bidding on the assumption that partner might have this hand goes badly on the many hands where partner does not have it. But even so, after 1H-1NT-2C-2D would you pass? I think I would bid 2H, presumably showing a good five card heart suit and good clubs. When one hand holds an 18 count and the other hand holds a 5 count, I figure that the 18 count can take the lead.