[MrAce]

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Team Match, all expert players.

1♦ =4+
2NT=♥+♣ 5-5 or better
3♠ = whatever you think it is.

Lead ♠ 5 (4th best), and you try ♠ T for entry to dummy incase the lead is from QJ, and if E cover, later W can think that you may not have the 9. Anyway E covers with Q
It is your turn. What is the plan?

[alok c]

Only possible if West has HA & East H JX & CK.

[Cyberyeti]

alok c, on 2015-July-06, 14:14, said:

Only possible if West has HA & East H JX & CK.

Rubbish, you can make easily if W only has J♠ for example while you lose 2 hearts, a spade and a club or diamond (give E Qx, AJx, KJxxx, Kx with an extra small card in any suit)

[mikeh]

As is often the case, one can make a plan but one has to be prepared for forks in the plan should the hand play out in a fashion one doesn't expect. Here, I infer that RHO has all the missing high honours, and I am pretty sure that requires spades to be 5=2 (or 6=1), which is consistent with the lead...I mean, who in their right mind leads from Jxxx in this auction?

If I am correct, then the hand is cold on reasonably normal splits.

I lead a low heart towards dummy.

If LHO wins the Jack, he has a problem. Otoh a spade gives me a 3rd trick and now I don't think I can go down. A club gives me a free finesse, but temporarily cuts me off from my diamond Ace, so it is probably the best play for him, but most defenders will continue either a spade (as Timo suggested, maybe playing RHO for the 9) or a diamond.

Assume a diamond. Win the Ace, pitching a spade, to take a club hook, since if the clubs are Kx onside we have 10 winners (in fact, 11, but they have 3 tricks). Assuming the club hook holds, drive out the heart A. RHO can't do anything in diamonds to hurt us...if he cashes the K, we pitch a low club. In any event we win the spade from RHO (if he has one) and then cash the hearts, and the clubs from the top. Even if RHO has clubs stopped, he has to give us diamonds in the end game.

let's go back, for a moment, to LHO rising with the heart J to fire a club. Assume RHO withholds the K. Win cheaply and drive out the heart A. Win the presumed spade return, run the hearts, pitching a spade and some diamonds, then play the club Q. RHO is toast.

Basically we need RHO to hold the A hearts, the Club K no more than 3 times (if LHO switched to a stiff club earlier, then we are ok even if rho has K10xx), and the diamond K and no more than 2 spades....all of which seems probable.

There are a lot of things that could arise as the hand goes along (the heart 9 might hold!), but we can, I think, cater to all of them so long as the underlying assumptions about the missing Aces and Kings, and the spade break, are valid.

[Phil]

Cyberyeti, on 2015-July-06, 14:44, said:

Rubbish, you can make easily if W only has J♠ for example while you lose 2 hearts, a spade and a club or diamond (give E Qx, AJx, KJxxx, Kx with an extra small card in any suit)

True but I think the objective is to come up with the best line when RHO is missing one of these cards.

[gnasher]

mikeh, on 2015-July-06, 14:45, said:

I lead a low heart towards dummy.

If LHO wins the Jack, he has a problem. Otoh a spade gives me a 3rd trick and now I don't think I can go down. A club gives me a free finesse, but temporarily cuts me off from my diamond Ace, so it is probably the best play for him, but most defenders will continue either a spade (as Timo suggested, maybe playing RHO for the 9) or a diamond.

Assume a diamond. Win the Ace, pitching a spade, to take a club hook, since if the clubs are Kx onside we have 10 winners (in fact, 11, but they have 3 tricks). Assuming the club hook holds, drive out the heart A. RHO can't do anything in diamonds to hurt us...if he cashes the K, we pitch a low club. In any event we win the spade from RHO (if he has one) and then cash the hearts, and the clubs from the top. Even if RHO has clubs stopped, he has to give us diamonds in the end game.

Instead of playing clubs from the top in the four-card ending, it's better to play ♣J, catering for RHO's holding K10xx (assuming that's still possible).

[mikeh]

gnasher, on 2015-July-06, 15:16, said:

Instead of playing clubs from the top in the four-card ending, it's better to play ♣J, catering for RHO's holding K10xx (assuming that's still possible).

Agreed. I specifically catered to that in one of the forks, but got so caught up in trying to cover various scenarios that I failed to point that out when dealing with the diamond shift (in fact I had stopped following that path before getting to the endgame). However, one would have a pretty fair inferential count by the time one got to that position, and having got there, it should be pretty easy to recognize if the position is possible. Basically one would be void void void AJ9x in hand opposite void void Q10x x having lost 2 hearts and needing only 2 more tricks, with East known to hold both minor kings. If either has pitched a club, the position can't exist and one can play for the overtrick (which is why I suggested switching back to hearts after the initial club hook won, in the diamond switch scenario), and if one didn't, then we lead the club J. Thanks for pointing it out (but I don't think I would have gone down )

[gszes]

mikeh, on 2015-July-06, 14:45, said:

As is often the case, one can make a plan but one has to be prepared for forks in the plan should the hand play out in a fashion one doesn't expect. Here, I infer that RHO has all the missing high honours, and I am pretty sure that requires spades to be 5=2 (or 6=1), which is consistent with the lead...I mean, who in their right mind leads from Jxxx in this auction?

If I am correct, then the hand is cold on reasonably normal splits.

I lead a low heart towards dummy.

If LHO wins the Jack, he has a problem. Otoh a spade gives me a 3rd trick and now I don't think I can go down. A club gives me a free finesse, but temporarily cuts me off from my diamond Ace, so it is probably the best play for him, but most defenders will continue either a spade (as Timo suggested, maybe playing RHO for the 9) or a diamond.

Assume a diamond. Win the Ace, pitching a spade, to take a club hook, since if the clubs are Kx onside we have 10 winners (in fact, 11, but they have 3 tricks). Assuming the club hook holds, drive out the heart A. RHO can't do anything in diamonds to hurt us...if he cashes the K, we pitch a low club. In any event we win the spade from RHO (if he has one) and then cash the hearts, and the clubs from the top. Even if RHO has clubs stopped, he has to give us diamonds in the end game.

let's go back, for a moment, to LHO rising with the heart J to fire a club. Assume RHO withholds the K. Win cheaply and drive out the heart A. Win the presumed spade return, run the hearts, pitching a spade and some diamonds, then play the club Q. RHO is toast.

Basically we need RHO to hold the A hearts, the Club K no more than 3 times (if LHO switched to a stiff club earlier, then we are ok even if rho has K10xx), and the diamond K and no more than 2 spades....all of which seems probable.

There are a lot of things that could arise as the hand goes along (the heart 9 might hold!), but we can, I think, cater to all of them so long as the underlying assumptions about the missing Aces and Kings, and the spade break, are valid.

I like this play of low toward the heart 9 --- IF I was going to assume rho had all the missing honors I would begin with the heart K hoping rho began with AJ of hearts doubleton. The play toward the 9 caters to the problem of how to make sure lho cannot get in later in the hand with the heart J--------

[nige1]

MrAce, on 2015-July-06, 12:43, said:

Team Match, all expert players.
1♦ =4+
2NT=♥+♣ 5-5 or better
3♠ = whatever you think it is.
Lead ♠ 5 (4th best), and you try ♠ T for entry to dummy incase the lead is from QJ, and if E cover, later W can think that you may not have the 9. Anyway E covers with Q
It is your turn. What is the plan?

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Another variation: Win ♠Q with ♠A, Play a ♥ to ♥9 and ♥A. Win RHO's return with ♠K. Cash ♥KQ, RHO showing out.

Now you have a legitimate chance of making if RHO has ♣KT8 or ♣K singleton or doubleton . In the latter case e.g. ♠ Q x ♥ A x ♦ K J x x x x x ♣ K x
You can play ♣A, if RHO unblocks, you have 5 ♣ tricks. If he keeps his ♣K, he is endplayed.

You might also succeed if RHO makes a mistake with e.g.
♠ Q x ♥ A x ♦ K J x x x ♣ K T 8 x or
♠ Q x ♥ A x ♦ K J x x x ♣ K T x x or
♠ Q x ♥ A x ♦ K J x x x ♣ K 8 x x
♠ Q x ♥ A x ♦ K J x x x x ♣ K T x
♠ Q x ♥ A x ♦ K J x x x x ♣ K 8 x
Play ♣A. Continue with ♣Q. If RHO fails to unblock ♣s , then you can exit with a ♣. RHO and dummy now exchange ♦ tricks, With luck, you might emerge with 2 x ♠s, 2 x ♥s, 2 x ♣s, and 3 x ♦s. Defenders make 1 x ♥, 2 x ♣s and 1 x ♦.

If your ♣s were weaker, e.g. ♣ A Q J 9 2, you might not need to rely on a defensive error.

[alok c]

If East has SQx & all the balance high cards the game is always making.What if West led from 4carder spade? In that case HJx in one hand is vital.

[MrAce]

This hand was from European Open Championship. Declarer was Helgemo and I was commentator and kibbing Helgemo's hand (south)

I said something like "Spade Q indicates that W has the J, E can not false card at T1 so declarer knows he has only 2 ♠ tricks if they continue. Declarer will try to make 4♣+3♥+2♠ tricks. So he has to play hearts eventually. Dangerous hand is W not E. Since E is more likely to hold ♥A + ♣K he will play small ♥ to the 9. Another commentator said he will play on clubs immediately. My suggested line was as I said to play small ♥ to the 9. This will kill the entry of W. I know W may have ♣ K and E AJ of ♥ but this is less possibility imo. But if you decide W to hold ♣ K then one must play clubs immediately before W establishes his spades.

Helgemo did play neither small ♥ nor clubs. After he took the ♠ A he tanked for 15-20 seconds and he played ♥K and went down immediately. I am glad to hear that you guys agree with me on that one. Here is the full hand.

Full deal was

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http://www.bridgebas...ch.php?id=39905
Board 21

[Cyberyeti]

alok c, on 2015-July-06, 21:50, said:

If East has SQx & all the balance high cards the game is always making.What if West led from 4carder spade? In that case HJx in one hand is vital.

Depending on the line you adopt, you can possibly afford to duck one spade to deal with Qxx. I think the spade lead from Jxxx is not implausible on this auction as xxx/HH(x) seems a very likely layout.

MikeH's line is pretty good.

W can hardly have A♥ as you suggested in your previous post, there are only 15 missing points and it appears he has J♠.

I was thinking of playing hearts from the top (losing when W has ♥Jxx(x)), and when E wins A♥ and returns a spade, I duck, win a spade or club return in hand and play ♥Kx and eventually give up a club (if he has 2 spades and 3 or more hearts he can't have 4 clubs as W would have led one from xxxx).

If W returns a diamond, I win, take a club finesse and play ♥Kx. This guarantees the contract if E has J♥/K♣ and W would have led a diamond initially from xxxx.

[nige1]

MrAce, on 2015-July-07, 00:52, said:

This hand was from European Open Championship. Declarer was Helgemo and I was commentator and kibbing Helgemo's hand (south)I said something like "Spade Q indicates that W has the J, E can not false card at T1 so declarer knows he has only 2 ♠ tricks if they continue. Declarer will try to make 4♣+3♥+2♠ tricks. So he has to play hearts eventually. Dangerous hand is W not E. Since E is more likely to hold ♥A + ♣K he will play small ♥ to the 9. Another commentator said he will play on clubs immediately. My suggested line was as I said to play small ♥ to the 9. This will kill the entry of W. I know W may have ♣ K and E AJ of ♥ but this is less possibility imo. But if you decide W to hold ♣ K then one must play clubs immediately before W establishes his spades.Helgemo did play neither small ♥ nor clubs. After he took the ♠ A he tanked for 15-20 seconds and he played ♥K and went down immediately. I am glad to hear that you guys agree with me on that one. Here is the full hand. Full deal washttp://www.bridgebas...ch.php?id=39905

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Great hand, MrACe! Curses. dummy's ♣7 is a subtle threat.
I see that Gib can make an overtrick(!), against the actual layout!
In many layouts, you are defeated if win the 1st ♠ and cash ♥KQ after driving out ♥A. You need to keep a ♥ tenace, to endplay LHO!

In most layouts, you can make by holding up ♠s at trick one!
In fact, that seems the best line of all!

You hope to limit your losses to 1 X ♠, 2 X ♥ and 1 X ♣!

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[alok c]

In actual layout it is only possible as
1.Lead a small H from hand,East takes A & leads a spade.
2.Take spade K & play 5 rounds of clubs.West will be squeezed in S & H.
3.Endplay West in Spade.

[Cyberyeti]

nige1, on 2015-July-07, 01:10, said:

In many layouts, you are defeated if win the 1st ♠ and cash ♥KQ after driving out ♥A. You need to keep a ♥ tenace, to endplay LHO!

Only if E is very sharp and retains a club lower than yours, otherwise, you lose an unnecessary club trick to gain 2 diamonds on the endplay, making 3 clubs and 2 in each other suit.

[rhm]

Cyberyeti, on 2015-July-07, 03:17, said:

Only if E is very sharp and retains a club lower than yours, otherwise, you lose an unnecessary club trick to gain 2 diamonds on the endplay, making 3 clubs and 2 in each other suit.

Not so hard to see if you count your tricks on defense. Is is far tougher for declarer to plan for this eventuality.
I must admit I am a bit surprised that Helgemo butchered the hand so badly, since the right play at trick two is not that tough.
Playing East for minor suit lengths and West for majors including the jacks seems indicated from the bidding and opening lead.

Rainer Herrmann

[mikeh]

nige1, on 2015-July-07, 01:10, said:

In many layouts, you are defeated if win the 1st ♠ and cash ♥KQ after driving out ♥A. You need to keep a ♥ tenace, to endplay LHO!

After the heart to the 9 drives out the Ace and a spade comes back, we can afford to cash one top heart, but no good player would continue the suit thereafter. On the actual hand, inferring 5-2 spades and knowing the 5-1 hearts, one would be very worried about K10xx in clubs. One would lead the club Q, since RHO cannot win this without being end played. One intends to continue the J for the same reason. If RHO ducks twice, we cash the last top heart, and play A and a club. As it happens, the club 10 appears and the hand is trivial, so long as one doesn't cash the club A prematurely.

It is a neat hand, but for a WC player to go down shows that Hamman was right.

Btw, in a recent thread there was a discussion about how fantunes 'must' be cheating because one of them made a winning but stupid play on defence. The argument was that the player was too good to have played so badly. Funny how we tend to assume that bad plays that work must be from cheating, yet tend to forget that even the best can make blunders, as happened here.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2015-July-07, 08:08, said:

After the heart to the 9 drives out the Ace and a spade comes back, we can afford to cash one top heart, but no good player would continue the suit thereafter. On the actual hand, inferring 5-2 spades and knowing the 5-1 hearts, one would be very worried about K10xx in clubs. One would lead the club Q, since RHO cannot win this without being end played. One intends to continue the J for the same reason. If RHO ducks twice, we cash the last top heart, and play A and a club. As it happens, the club 10 appears and the hand is trivial, so long as one doesn't cash the club A prematurely.

It is a neat hand, but for a WC player to go down shows that Hamman was right.

Btw, in a recent thread there was a discussion about how fantunes 'must' be cheating because one of them made a winning but stupid play on defence. The argument was that the player was too good to have played so badly. Funny how we tend to assume that bad plays that work must be from cheating, yet tend to forget that even the best can make blunders, as happened here.

How are you feeling when E wins K♣ first time and returns a small club, a bit foolish if you play the 9 and this loses because W was 2173 which is surely not impossible here.

Plus you have no need to do this. Play the J and you're still fine. W shows out, play ♣A.

Either E has a potentially winning club in which case you cash the other heart, duck a club to E, E has only diamonds left, you have AQ109 on the deck so you will make 3 of those
now losing only a diamond 2 clubs and a heart.

If E hasn't kept a winning club, you cash them all strip squeezing W. After 5 rounds of clubs 2 rounds of spades 2 rounds of hearts with a trick score 7-2, W must keep 2 hearts and a spade, so also either another winning spade, a heart or a diamond. In the former 2 cases he has to give you 2 hearts, in the latter he only has one spade to take, plays a diamond and you endplay his partner who only has diamonds left.

Edit: just seen the flaw with this analysis - When you cash the second winning heart in the first line, E must discard his winning club, cute.

[Phil]

Maybe I'm having a blind spot this morning, but I see nothing wrong with:

1. Duck the spade
2. Win the spade.
3-4. ♣A-Q
5. Presumably a club exit.
6. ♥K...

This seems to work fine on the actual layout, as well as ♥Ax(x) with RHO.

When we duck the first spade, the danger suit here isn't spades, its a diamond shift from LHO which threatens to set up 1♠ + 2♥ + 1♦ + 1♣. LHO could have the ♣K but its not likely he has the ♥A. As long as we drive out the ♥A/♣K before the ♥J I think we are OK.

Keeping the spade tenace is an illusion. Helgemo makes if he ducks (I think).

[mikeh]

Phil, on 2015-July-07, 09:41, said:

Maybe I'm having a blind spot this morning, but I see nothing wrong with:

1. Duck the spade
2. Win the spade.
3-4. ♣A-Q
5. Presumably a club exit.
6. ♥K...

This seems to work fine on the actual layout, as well as ♥Ax(x) with RHO.

When we duck the first spade, the danger suit here isn't spades, its a diamond shift from LHO which threatens to set up 1♠ + 2♥ + 1♦ + 1♣. LHO could have the ♣K but its not likely he has the ♥A. As long as we drive out the ♥A/♣K before the ♥J I think we are OK.

Keeping the spade tenace is an illusion. Helgemo makes if he ducks (I think).

I think you are having a blind spot: consider your line when East has either Qx Axx KJxx K10xx or Qx Ax KJxxx K10xx

RHO simply ducks the club Q if you tackle clubs by laying down the A and the Q. If you now switch to the heart K, he wins and leads a heart back. If you lead a low heart, LHO wins the J and leads a diamond. In either case, you lose 2 hearts, one diamond, one club and that spade you ducked....and of course if you lose 2 clubs, you are going to need the heart J to be doubleton.

I think you are cold on either layout if you win the 1st spade and play a low heart.